JTC1/SC22/WG21
N1253
Doc No: SC22/WG21/N1253
J16/00-0030
Date: 1 May 2000
Project: JTC1.22.32
Ref Doc:
Reply to: Thomas Plum
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Minutes
SC22/WG21, C++, Tokyo, Japan
April 16 2000 (Sunday) 6pm - 8pm
(these minutes)
April 17-21 2000 (Monday) 9am - 5:30pm,
(Tuesday - Thursday) 8:30am - 5:30pm,
(Friday) 8:30am - 1:00pm
(Co-located with J16; see J16 minutes)
Meeting Location:
Kikai-Shinko-Kaikan Bldg.
3-5-8, Shiba-koen, Minato-ku
Tokyo 105-0011, Japan
Contact: IPSJ/ITSCJ
Fax: + 81 3 3431 6493
Phone: + 81 3 3431 2808
IPSJ/ITSCJ is on the third floor of Kikai-Shinko-Kaikan Bldg.
Host Contact information:
Mayumi Mita
Secretary General
IPSJ/ITSCJ
Room 308-3 Kikai-Shinko-Kaikan Bldg.
3-5-8, Shiba-koen, Minato-ku
Tokyo 105-0011, Japan
E-mail: mita@itscj.ipsj.or.jp
Fax: + 81 3 3431 6493
Phone: + 81 3 3431 2808
[Across the street from Tokyo Tower]
For further meeting information, see [Message c++std-all-2137]
<http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/domestic/sc22/Cpp/Tokyo>
http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/domestic/sc22/Cpp/Tokyo/
Ichiro KOSHIDA koshida@cc.teu.ac.jp
Tokyo Engineering University, Japan
1. Opening and introductions
Opened at 6pm on-time.
1.1 Welcome from host
Logistics were described.
1.2 Roll call of technical experts
(See attendance attached below)
1.3 Select meeting chair
Selected Plum without objection.
1.4 Select meeting secretary
Secretary Herb Sutter was absent, but in his absence it was
noted that Sutter had generously volunteered to take minutes
on many occasions _prior_ to his appointment as secretary.
Robert Klarer generously volunteered to take minutes during
the Monday-Friday session, but had brought no laptop to the
Sunday session. Andy Koenig agreed to provide notes to Tom
Plum, who agreed to produce the minutes for Sunday. Plum
notified WG21 that he prefers brevity. No objections.
1.5 Select language
English, without objection.
1.6 Adopt agenda
Some members of Japanese delegation asked for 9am start
time each morning, to accommodate Tokyo commute times.
Without objection. Otherwise adopted without objection.
1.7 Select drafting committee
Volunteers were Mitsuhashi (Japan), O'Riordan (Ireland), and
Kuehl (Germany). Plum commented that there would likely be
no resolutions that needed drafting but we would be prepared.
No objections.
1.8 Approve minutes from previous meeting
No comments. Approved without objection.
1.9 Review action items from previous meeting
Plum discovered only one action item ... his own, to provide
details of the JTC 1 balloting process for a Technical Corrigendum.
(With kind assistance of the new acting chair of SC22, John Hill,
Plum fulfilled that action item before the WG21 session close
on Friday.)
1.10 Recognize documents
No new documents for the Sunday meeting.
2. Status, liaison and action item reports
2.1 Small group status reports
2.2 Liaison Reports
2.2.1 SC22 report
Plum reported that SC22 had requested, and JTC 1 had approved, a
procedure change to allow Observing Members ("O Members") of SC22
to participate in SC22's Working Groups ("WGs"). In particular,
Sweden could send a WG21 delegation again if they chose.
2.2.2 SC22/WG11 (Binding Techniques) report
[defer to Monday session]
2.2.3 SC22/WG14 (C) report
[defer to Monday session]
2.2.4 SC22/WG15 (POSIX) report
[defer to Monday session]
2.2.5 SC22/WG20 (Internationalization) report
[defer to Monday session]
3. New business
3.1 Defect Report procedures
Beman Dawes said that the library working group was voting on informal
resolutions that they believed should become official defect reports,
and that they were going to forward to Koenig as project editor to approve
them as official defect reports.
Plum noted that Steve Clamage wasn't here this evening, and there were
no controversies about procedure, so he proposed to defer further
discussion about DR procedure until Monday's session.
Dawes wanted to strongly support something that he said Koenig had said
earlier: We are not under time pressure, so that in Toronto, we do not
need to edit all the changes into a document. In particular, he
believes that about a third of the errors in the library were due to
editing under pressure.
Several people pointed out that the minimum work we need to do is to
collect all the Defect Reports into a TC. Ultimately, it would be
nice to have an accurately corrected standard, but it is not
essential.
3.2 Future meeting schedules
The next item was future meeting schedules. October's meeting is in
Toronto (starting October 22). For 2001, we're now thinking about
April in Copenhagen. Microsoft had given an informal request for the
October 2001 meeting. Plum agreed to follow up with Jon Caves, the
Microsoft Principal on J16. Francis Glassborow also mentioned that
there was an invitation from the Netherlands to host a meeting in Curacao
at a subsequent date.
3.3 Performance TR status and planning
O'Riordan has volunteered for Performance TR Project Editor and
subgroup chair. Plum reported that Clamage was agreeable to
the appointment. Plum will follow up with the necessary SC22
paperwork.
4. Review and approve resolutions and issues
One new issue had arisen between meetings: what is WG21's policy
about private-or-public status of the material on the WG21 web site.
Plum reported that he could not obtain definitive guidance from SC22
or JTC 1, so WG21 can probably choose its preferred policy. No
conclusion was reached, but there was willingness to try an open
(not restricted) web site and to try keeping only one version of
our issues lists (a publicly-available version).
Kristoffersen and O'Riordan volunteered to discuss web-hosting
issues with Jason Merrill, the Cygnus Principal for J16. Plum
expressed an opinion that it would be useful for the WG21 web site
(at dkuug.dk) and the J16 web site (at cygnus.com) to each contain
a mirror of what's on the other.
5. Closing process
5.1 Select chair for next meeting
Plum volunteered again.
5.2 Establish next agenda
Expected to be same as this.
5.3 Future meetings
[deferred to Monday]
5.4 Future mailings
[deferred to Monday]
5.5 Assign document numbers
[deferred to Monday]
5.6 Review action items
ACTION: Kristoffersen, O'Riordan, Merrill to discuss web
mirrors. [done]
ACTION: Plum will post balloting process for TC [done].
ACTION: Plum will let O-members know that they can attend
WG21 meetings. [still todo]
5.7 Any other business
[none]
5.8 Thanks to host
WG21 thanked our hosts for the execellent facilities.
5.9 Adjournment
Adjourned at 19:50.
Attendees: (listing HoD first)
Denmark: Jan Kristoffersen
Canada: Robert Klarer
Ireland: Martin O'Riordan
UK: Francis Glassborow, Andy Sawyer
US: Clark Nelson, Beman Dawes,
Andrew Koenig
France: Vincent Lextrait, Georges Schumacher
Japan: Ichiro Koshida, Seiji Hayashida,
Masaya Obata, Fusako Mitsuhashi
Germany: Dietmar Kuehl, Nicolai Josuttis
Convener: Thomas Plum