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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/6/19 4:30 PM, Billy O'Neal (VC
      LIBS) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
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        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">&gt; Please
          read the wording again. Note that it says that, if those
          conditions are true, then the result is unspecified. </p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">If “the wording” means the P/R of <a
            href="https://cplusplus.github.io/LWG/issue3314"
            moz-do-not-send="true">
            https://cplusplus.github.io/LWG/issue3314</a>, the wording
          there implies that we must make some effort to determine that
          the condition is true, which in practice we cannot do because
          the interface between streams and streambufs is public.</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Yes, that is the wording I meant.  The intent is to ensure the
      implementation does *not* have to put forth such effort.  I don't
      understand where such an implication is coming from, but that
      wording has confused at least three experienced wordsmiths, so I
      acknowledge there is an issue, but I don't understand what it is.<br>
    </p>
    <p>I think it is important to say something here.  Otherwise, one
      could claim that the terminal failing to display <tt>"μs"</tt>
      because it is configured for an incompatible encoding is
      non-conforming.  Well, to the extent that the standard addresses
      such devices.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Tom.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MW2PR2101MB1098622B635058C26ED24D6FCB790@MW2PR2101MB1098.namprd21.prod.outlook.com">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Corentin’s P/R below seems to not have this
          concern.</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Billy3</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
      <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
          color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Lib
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lib-bounces@lists.isocpp.org">&lt;lib-bounces@lists.isocpp.org&gt;</a> on behalf of Tom
          Honermann via Lib <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lib@lists.isocpp.org">&lt;lib@lists.isocpp.org&gt;</a><br>
          <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 6, 2019 1:12:48 PM<br>
          <b>To:</b> Corentin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:corentin.jabot@gmail.com">&lt;corentin.jabot@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
          <b>Cc:</b> Tom Honermann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tom@honermann.net">&lt;tom@honermann.net&gt;</a>; C++
          Library Evolution Working Group
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lib-ext@lists.isocpp.org">&lt;lib-ext@lists.isocpp.org&gt;</a>; Library Working Group
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lib@lists.isocpp.org">&lt;lib@lists.isocpp.org&gt;</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:unicode@isocpp.open-std.org">unicode@isocpp.open-std.org</a>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:unicode@open-std.org">&lt;unicode@open-std.org&gt;</a><br>
          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [isocpp-lib] [SG16-Unicode]
          [isocpp-lib-ext] [time.duration.io] : Is stream insertion
          behavior locale dependent when Period::type is micro?</font>
        <div> </div>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">The intent of the wording is to say that
        implementors do *not* need to be aware of terminals or codecvt
        facets. Without this, the wording could be read that
        implementations must implement magic to make the character
        display correctly. 
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Please read the wording again. Note that it says that, if
          those conditions are true, then the result is unspecified. <br>
          <br>
          <div id="x_AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Tom.</div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
            On Nov 6, 2019, at 12:07 PM, Corentin &lt;<a
              href="mailto:corentin.jabot@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">corentin.jabot@gmail.com</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div dir="ltr">Then I would just say associated execution
                encoding with charT
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Extremely uncomfortable with involving stream,
                  console or anything else not known at compile time  </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="x_gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Wed, 6 Nov 2019
                  at 04:51, Tom Honermann &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:tom@honermann.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">tom@honermann.net</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
                  padding-left:1ex">
                  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">On 11/6/19 8:30 AM, Howard
                    Hinnant wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <pre>You can comment the LWG issue (if you want) by emailing said comment to <a href="mailto:lwgchair@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lwgchair@gmail.com</a>, specifying which issue you wish to comment and supplying the comment.

Howard

On Nov 5, 2019, at 10:32 PM, Corentin via Lib-Ext <a href="mailto:lib-ext@lists.isocpp.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;lib-ext@lists.isocpp.org&gt;</a> wrote:
</pre>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <pre>Not sure how to do that proceduraly but here is some alternative wording.
The "runtime" locale-tied encoding is *assumed to be* a super set of the execution encoding - to the extent the standard doesn't distinguish between the two


If Period::type is micro, but the &lt;ins&gt;abstract&lt;/ins&gt; character &lt;ins&gt;µ , which has the universal character name &lt;/ins&gt; U+00B5 cannot be represented in the &lt;ins&gt;execution&lt;/ins&gt; encoding &lt;del&gt;used for&lt;/del&gt;&lt;ins&gt; associated with the character type &lt;/ins&gt; charT, the unit suffix "us" is used instead of "µs".</pre>
                      </blockquote>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <div>Howard and I discussed the wording I proposed
                      today and we're now on the same page with regard
                      to the intent.<br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>With regard to Corentin's suggested wording
                      above, "abstract character" and "execution
                      encoding" are not current terms in the standard
                      (well, the former is inherited from our reference
                      to the Unicode standard but is otherwise unused at
                      present). 
                      <a
href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwg21.link%2Fp1859r0&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cbion%40microsoft.com%7Cb9a77991a8d746c6e51708d762bb0c96%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637086427832584449&amp;sdata=TTWf1hWjEPQIAlivJ1zDaXlH5pA%2F1QmEvdoTksUZKws%3D&amp;reserved=0"
                        originalsrc="http://wg21.link/p1859r0"
shash="ru4zw9n0a/XjARWVNX9TCAsBY8PfirOtTYXOsUNHwbkqsm0hItwbw5c1Hamodagandoi7vvqHFaDTv2qprsrW0IsUK1XPtMrZRcf5TlT+jXYW8VR/Va3iegEX568+9X02jNFxzNaAzoN9a9iYz8JB8X06aV3Nd1o259qNj5hnxA="
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                        P1859R0</a> does intend to standardize new
                      terminology, but we don't yet have consensus for
                      what the new terms should be named.  I think we
                      should avoid using candidate names until we have
                      such consensus.<br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Tom.<br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <pre>On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 15:42, Tom Honermann via Lib-Ext <a href="mailto:lib-ext@lists.isocpp.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;lib-ext@lists.isocpp.org&gt;</a> wrote:
A new LWG issue was filed for this question today:
- <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcplusplus.github.io%2FLWG%2Fissue3314&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cbion%40microsoft.com%7Cb9a77991a8d746c6e51708d762bb0c96%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637086427832584449&amp;sdata=ipwRAI%2Fb6Kp0NMD8%2Fk4x1yl%2Fp8a0Fxn%2FbGS8h3smGX4%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalsrc="https://cplusplus.github.io/LWG/issue3314" shash="i5ak/rsqYQ25PXkvBXvLLthsWQ96WLUUTL/uqZ+X1oZVNC9Oxn0IDQLL6zZusEFKoXACEnpX+vBtbpPyJqD/REqRcMC0AY24jG+s+FQN/ivm1Xcc2GAXGblLMORHSa6T3m30Vk5KFMQqeTJB1SHh3Y3X6vDSMrXXqboCL54RHyw=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://cplusplus.github.io/LWG/issue3314</a>

This issue concerns the ostream inserters added for std::chrono::duration in C++20 and what the intended behavior is for a duration when period::type is micro.

[<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftime.duration.io&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cbion%40microsoft.com%7Cb9a77991a8d746c6e51708d762bb0c96%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637086427832594448&amp;sdata=PmBavf7s8RWGBrufzaawVpaR5tleqhCScrmOQ4hkhqI%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalsrc="http://time.duration.io" shash="ix7zIKdms/5fdBCIfr6+0gEa1TInXSIbYLGKf/Q7OwLAvu3OPiOskCT9KWWQZsK7KqJMza25wOjApd4vdIyYi/InKl5+66EVqmx/6eDyMbj8FRv1cG0/irSJK+aVZCP4Rvq6rKpG9QmJupiEaW7C+QM2QjppCCoZa6jotYk2lZo=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">time.duration.io</a>]p4 states:


</pre>
                          <blockquote type="cite">
                            <pre>If Period​::​type is micro, but the character U+00B5 cannot be represented in the encoding used for charT,           the unit suffix "us" is used instead of "μs".

</pre>
                          </blockquote>
                          <pre>The question is with regard to which one of the encodings used for charT is referred to here; the compile-time execution character set or the run-time locale dependent native character set?

The proposed resolution specifies that the compile-time execution character set is the intended one.  My expectation is that this aligns with existing implementations, but I haven't checked.

Tom.

</pre>
                        </blockquote>
                        <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      <fieldset></fieldset>
                      <pre>_______________________________________________
SG16 Unicode mailing list
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</pre>
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