SC22/WG20
N910
CEN/TC304 N1005
Subject/Title: Minutes of the 19th plenary of
CEN/TC304 in December 2001
Source: Secretary of TC304
Date: 1 February 2002
Note/Action: To be adopted by the next plenary
of TC304
Minutes of 18th Plenary
of CEN/TC304 European Localization ICT Requirements
The meeting took place 3
December in the CEN-meeting center in Brussels according to an invitation and
an agenda proposed in document N994.
1 Opening of Meeting
Wolf Arfvidson welcomed the
delegates and informed the meeting on the situation with the secretariat of
CEN/TC304. He said that Icelandic Standard was under obligation to support the
secretariat until April 2002 but no CEN standard body had yet volunteered to
continue its operation after that. There was however some discussion with an
affiliated member of CEN on the subject.
Roll Call of Delegates
The following delegations
were present at the plenary.
Norway: Keld Jørn Simonsen.
Germany: Paul Dettmer hod,
Marc Wilhelm Küster
Ireland: present through a
proxy to Finland
Finland: Erkki Kolehmainen,
Sweden: Monica Ståhl
Forsberg
Poland: Elzibieta
Broma-Wrzesien
Netherlands: Johan van
Wingen
From CEN/ISSS: James Boyd
From ETSI HF by a special
invitation from the chairman: Knut Nordby
Secretary and Chairman
of the meeting
Chair: Wolf Arfvidson
Secretary: Þorgeir
Sigurðsson
Adoption
of agenda
The agenda in N994 was
adopted with some clarifications reflected in the minutes. Agenda item 9, 11
and 12 were not discussed separately due to time-limitations, but much of their
content was mentioned under other agenda items. In the minutes the resolutions
have for convenience been placed under the corresponding agenda item, even if
they were passed separately at the end of the meeting under agenda item 13.
Agenda Item 10 on MES-3 has been placed under agenda item 7 j).
Appointment
of Resolution Drafting Committee
The secretary, Keld
Simonsen, Marc Küster and Erkki Kolehmainen volunteered to be on the resolution
drafting committee.
4 Minutes of Last
Meeting
The minutes of the last
meeting were adopted with the note that the terms of reference for the Cultural
Diversity Steering Group had not been distributed yet as promised in the
minutes.
5 Information on
Cultural Diversity Steering Group
Information was given on
the work of the Steering Group on Cultural Adaptability (CDSG) that has been
established as an offspring of the PWC report (see N966, N971 and N976). Marc
Küster had been elected chair of the group.
The purpose of the Cultural
Diversity Steering Group (CDSG) is to review and recommend the subject areas
that Europeans should work on in terms of stadardization in support of cultural
diversity, what goals should be set for this work and where (i.e., in which fora
e.g., CEN/ISO/W3C/IETF... it should take place. The group has three delegates
from TC304, Wolf Arfvidson the chair, Erkki Kolehmainen the Finnish delegate
and Marc Küster from Germany. It also has delegates from the CEN Electronic
Commerce Workshop (Man-Sze Li and Catherine Chen), ICTSB (Knut Nordby of ETSI
HF), ISO/IEC JTC1 CLAUI (Yves Neuville of SC35) and an observer representing
the European Commission (EC) DG Enterprise (Cesar Santos was present) and
delegates/observers from CEN/WS MMI/DC (Ian Campbell Grant), CEN/WS LT (Eric
Duval),CEN/ISSS Forum (Jan Rietveld was present), ANEC (Gottlobe Fabisch), EFTA
(Jóhannes Þorsteinsson), LISA and UNICODE (Asmus Freytag). .
Marc Küster said that the
minutes of the meeting of the Steering group would be made available to TC304
members. He said that the Terms of Reference and a Call for experts was already
available at the CEN/ISSS web site with a deadline at the end of January. www.cenorm.be/ISSS. A paper copy was distributed
to the delegates present.
The production of awareness
material and the need for producing an overview of current standard activities
was discussed. Knut Nordby (ETSI HF) said that other bodies needed to be
signaled. In response to this, Marc Küster and others named a number of
relevant organisations that had already been approached (ANEC, LISA, UNICODE).
The purpose of the CDSG and
its relation to TC304 was discussed. The Netherlands (Johan van Wingen) wanted
to know what the formal relation of CEN National Standard Bodies was to the
CDSG and complained about the lack of formal documents. He said that he had not
seen the final PWC report and he wanted a follow-up of TC304 responses to the
report.
The Chair (Wolf Arfvidson)
replied and said that the draft final report N966 is the final report, there
had not been any new material added. (N979 is our follow-up as well as our
participation in the CDSG). Erkki Kolehmainen (Finland) added that the Steering
group had taken a decision to use the web site of CEN/ISSS for distributing
material and information. He said the Steering Group did not work under the
auspices of TC304.
Norway (Keld Simonsen)
asked how the representatives of TC304 in the Steering group had been selected
and asked further how they could represent TC304 interests. The chair said in
response that he had nominated the people to represent TC304 as was said at the
preceding TC304 meeting. (Proposals had been invited). Keld Simonsen said that
this process was not under control of the TC and thus not accountable.
6 Liaison report
Under this agenda item, a
cooperation with ETSI was discussed on the placement and ordering of letters on
GSM phones. Knut Nordby from ETSI HF explained the situation in ETSI where a
group, financed by the EC, as part of the eEurope-initiative was being set up
to deal with the issue. He stated that there was a clear need for harmonising
standards and meeting national requirements. He took as an example the letter
'å' that was ordered differently by Scandinavian countries.
In response, Marc Küster
told of the current IT situation with respect to adaptability of culturally
dependent ordering of letters and said that there was a widely accepted
mechanism in ISO for allowing different ordering rules. Keld Simonsen adviced
on adaptability of the approach taken. He also pointed at ISO/IEC JTC1 SC22
WG20 ordering templates and tailoring available at the Cultural registry. Johan
van Wingen warned on the complexity of the issues. Erkki Kolehmainen asked for
a time-frame for the task and Knut Nordby said it was one and a half year. The
Chair asked on how TC304 and ETSI might organise their co-operation and who
would be in the lead of it. Knut Nordby said ETSI would be in the lead but
welcomed a liaison with TC304. Erkki Kolehmainen said these issues were so important
that the CDSG should also take them up.
Knut Nordby stated a
warning that if the process of harmonizing international IC and IT standard
looked as being delayed, ETSI might implement a faster European agreement. The
information was given that Karl Ivar Larsson, one of TC304 main experts, would
probably be contracted as an expert on character set issues by the ETSI group.
Wolf Arfvidson proposed that another liaison officer would also be assigned
from TC304 and proposed Marc Küster for this.
There was some discussion
if there was a need for another liaison in addition to Karl Ivar Larsson. A
resolution was however drafted and later adopted unanimously:
Resolution #1: TC-liaison-officer to ETSI-HF
CEN/TC304 appoints Marc
Küster as a liaison officer to ETSI HF. The TC also wishes the Cultural
Diversity Steering Group to take up the monitoring of harmonizing IC with IT
standards.
Adopted unanimously
Keld Simonsen distributed a
document to the delegates (N1003) with information on relevant ISO matters.
The possible disbandment of
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC22 WG20 and a vote for it was discussed. Arnold Winkler had
announced his withdrawal as the WGs convenor. The Netherlands stated that they
would vote Yes for disbanding WG20.
7 Management of Work
Items of TC304 (resolutions of the 18th plenary)
a) EOR-2
The situation on the
ordering project EOR-2 was discussed. The voting on the EOR-2 draft as a CEN
report was expected to end 12. December. A relevant amendment to 10646 was not
yet approved and EOR-2 should be corrected. Marc Küster (Germany) volunteered
to translate the report into an EN with a new Project team. Erkki Kolehmainen
(Finland) supported Marc Küster in this. Keld Simonsen (Norway) said he did not
like any open-ended specifications. He said he was however interested in
co-operation on the draft and said that there was not a need for a formal
Project Team. He asked what to do with comments in this voting round. Marc
replied that they would serve as input to the new EN. Johan van Wingen
(Netherlands) said that working further on this would only result in loss of
time and money and he was against any standardisation based on MESs.
A resolution was drafted
and later voted on.
Resolution # 2: Project Team for EOR-2 EN
CEN/TC304 resolves,
conditional on the adoption of the CR on EOR-2, to set up a project team with
Marc Küster as the editor and additional initial members, Keld Simonsen and
Kent Karlsson, to draft a prEN to update both the EOR-2 CR and the EOR-1 ENV.
This resolution was adopted
with a majority voting for it:
The Netherlands voted No
Finland, Germany, Norway
Sweden, Ireland voted Yes
b) Fallback
The status of the Fallback
project was reviewed. It was being processed by CEN with a short additional
text into a CEN Report now changed into a CEN Technical Report. Voting by the
CEN BT was expected to start in December and it was no need for any TC
resolution.
c) ESR
The situation on ESR-1 and
ESR- 2 was discussed. The project had been given to a CEN Workshop and a CWA
14094 was produced. The TC304 secretary said that he had made SC22 WG20 aware
of this CWA that TC304 wished to serve as input into the revision of its
cultural registry standard. There was however no work being done or planned in
TC304 on it, but a Work Item was still assigned to it in the CEN databases that
could only be removed by a TC resolution:
Resolution # 3 ESR WI deletion
CEN/TC304 resolves that
producing a CWA 14094 for the ESR is sufficient and the WI of processing ESR-1
into a CR is to be deleted as well as the WI to produce ESR-2.
Adopted unanimously
d) Work on 1923
The following resolution
was passed because CEN no longer supported the ENV type deliverable that TC304
had previously decided to produce instead of EN1923.
Resolution # 4 ENV1923 to become a TS
CEN/TC304 resolves that
since the ENV deliverable is no longer supported by the CEN standard system, a
TS (Technical specification) should be produced instead.
This resolution was adopted
with a majority voting for it:
The Netherlands and Ireland
abstained
Germany, Norway Sweden,
Finland voted Yes.
e) National locales
There was a discussion on
the problems associated with populating the two Cultural Registries (ISO and
CEN).
A report meant to help
National Standard Bodies do the necessary registrations was presented (N1002).
The following resolution was adopted
Resolution # 5 Guidance to help populating the
Cultural Registry
CEN/TC304 thanks Monica
Ståhl Forsberg for delivering document CEN/TC304 N1002 containing guidance to
help European NBs prepare cultural information for registration. CEN/TC304
wishes this guidance to be forwarded to those NBs that submitted data on
cultural IT information for the registration but have not yet produced a formal
registration.
Adopted unanimously
f) Eurolocale (CWA
14051-1 and 14051-2) registration in the two Cultural Registries – progress
report.
The secretary had on behalf
of TC304 sent for registration the content of the Eurolocale CWA. The comments
received during the registration process were presented in documents N996, N997
and N998. Most serious in these comments was the implication that Part 2 and
Part 1 were not harmonious but Part 2 is (and should be) an editorial
implementation of Part 1.
The
following resolution was passed:
Resolution #6 Resolving Eurolocale comments
CEN/TC304 instructs the
editor of the Eurolocale specification Keld Simonsen, together with Erkki
Kolehmainen to resolve the comments on the Eurolocale project (see documents
N996, N997 and N998) and to initiate all necessary communication with SC22 and
its WG 20.
Adopted unanimously
g) Eurolocale (CWA
14051-1) transformation into an ENV or CEN TS– progress report
The secretary explained
that the previous decision of Tc304 to convert the part 1 of the Eurolocale CWA
an ENV had not been carried out yet, because the registration of the Eurolocale
specification in ISO/IEC SC22 had not taken place. A discussion on the
possibility that SC22 would want to change the content of a European
specification that TC304 wanted to register led to the following resolution:
Resolution # 7 Cultural specifications
CEN/TC304 would like to
inform SC22 that SC22 should only comment on but not change cultural
specifications sent in by CEN/TC304.
This resolution was adopted
with a majority voting for it:
Netherlands abstained.
The other five countries
voted for it.
The Netherlands said they
could not see what impact this resolution would have and therefore abstained.
h) OCR-B testing – final
report from PT on the testing of letters, progress report
The latest report on the
OCR-B testing is in N982. The chairman remarked that no final report had been
received. The secretary said that a final report was not strictly needed as
N982 was already adopted as final deliverable and it was up to the editor to decide
if the other purpose of the report was fulfilled, that is to serve as input for
the OCR-B standard. (Karl Ivar Larsson is the editor of both the OCR-B testing
and OCR-B standards).
i) OCR-B - ENV with
euro-sign and some more European letters - progress report on final adoption -
proposal for change to EN
Erkki Kolehmaine proposed
that because of the above agenda item, only the Euro-sign should be added to
the repertoire of the OCR-B standard and other letters moved into an
informative annex. It was explained that it was already so in the document
N992.
A decision was needed to
change the intended work into either a TS or an EN since the ENV type was no
longer supported. The editor (Karl Ivar Larsson) had proposed that it should be
an EN and the following resolution was passed.
Resolution # 8 OCR-B WI
CEN/TC304 resolves to
advance document N992 into an EN and instructs its secretary to forward it to
the CEN CMC for this purpose.
Adopted unanimously
j) Identification and
use of MES 3. MES 3 use in ISO standards. Proposal for a new MES 3
The situation on the MES-3
registration in the Appendix of the ISO/IEC JTC1 10646 standard was discussed.
The application had not been accepted by JTC1 SC2 because of changes made to it
(see resolution in the last plenary of TC304). Proposals for what to do next
were discussed. Objections were raised by the Netherlands and also by Germany
that the issue was not worth any effort.
A discussion raised by
document N1001 by dr Umamaheswaran (not present) led to the following resolution:
Resolution # 9 MES-3 in 10646
CEN/TC304 resolves to
suggest to SC2/WG2 that MES- 3A and MES-3B not be incorporated in the Annex of
10646 as such. Instead if incorporated they should be replaced by just one open
collection, the "Modern European Scripts" (MES-Open), that reflects
the scope of the CEN WS MES that produced MES-3A and MES-3B as part of the CEN
Workshop Agreement 13873:2000.
The resolution was adopted
with a majority voting for it
Norway and Netherlands
abstained
Finland, Ireland, Germany,
Sweden voted in favour of it
The Netherlands stated that
they were in favour of the first sentence, but against the MES-Open and had
therefore to abstain.
8 Support for Sami
languages in data processing – new proposed work item
Document N995 contained a
proposal from Sweden for a new work item on support for Sami languages in data
processing. Monica Ståhl Forsberg explained that one reason for the need for
this WI was a new national legislation that gives the Sami people increased
rights to use their language with its special Sami characters in contacts with
public authorities.
Resolution #10 SAMI WI
CEN/TC304 resolves to start
a new work item to produce an EN for the support in IT of Sami languages as
spoken in Norway, Sweden and Finland and the Romani language as spoken in
Finland. The draft, once verified by appropriate authorities in the Nordic
countries, may be forwarded by the chair and secretary for a ballot.
The resolution was adopted
with a majority voting for it
The Netherlands voted against
it
Finland, Ireland, Germany,
Norway, Sweden voted for it
9 Thanks to the host
Resolution #11 Thanks to host
CEN/TC304 wishes to thank
James Boyd of CEN/ISSS for participating in the TC304 plenary meeting and for
use of the facilities at the CEN meeting centre.
Acclamation
10 Next meeting
Since the future
secretariat of TC304 was not secured the next meeting date could not be
committed to otherwise than by a recommendation.
Resolution #12 Next meeting
CEN/TC304 recommends that
the next meeting of TC304 is convened in June or September 2002 in Brussels.
Adopted unanimously