SC22/WG21/N1214

J16/99-0038

November 9, 1999

Sean A Corfield

sean.corfield@ocsltd.com

J16 Meeting No. 29

WG21 Meeting No. 24

October 19-26, 1999

J16 FORMAL MINUTES

Aston Keauhou Beach Resort Hotel

Keauhou-Kona, HI

 

J16 Meeting, 20-26 October, 1999.

1. Opening activities

Clamage opened the meeting at 08:48HST on Wednesday, 20 October, 1999.

1.1 Opening comments

Clamage welcomed everyone to Hawaii.

1.2 Introductions

Miller circulated the J16 attendance list for completion - attached as Appendix A - and the membership list for review and correction.

The committee introduced themselves.

1.3 Membership, voting rights, and procedures for the meeting

Clamage explained voting rights.

1.4 Agenda review and approval

Clamage added two new items (1.9.1 and 1.9.2).

Motion by Sutter / O'Riordan

Move we adopt N1205 = 99-0029 as the agenda.

Motion passed J16: lots in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

1.5 Distribution of position papers, WG progress reports, WG work plans for the week, and other documents that were not distributed before the meeting.

CWG and LWG will work on issues lists (which have been published on the web. PWG will continue to work on their draft TR.

1.6 Approval of the minutes of the previous meeting

Motion by Corfield / Kühl:

Move we approve N1194 = 99-0017 as the minutes of the previous meeting.

Motion passed J16: lots in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

1.7 Report on the WG21 Tuesday meeting

Plum summarised the WG21 discussions. He said the main decision was to vote out the TC at the end of the Toronto meeting in October 2000.

1.8 Liaison reports

Sutter has been asked to liase between the H2 SQL and J16 committees. He said the SQL-99 FDIS is currently in ballot.

No other liaisons were present.

1.9 New business requiring actions by the committee

1.9.1 Approve WG21 convenor

Plum was the only volunteer for convenor. His appointment was approved by SC22 pending J16 approval.

J16 endorse Plum's appointment: lots in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

1.9.2 Resignation of secretary

Clamage explained that Corfield had announced his intent to step down as secretary and possibly withdraw from J16 work. The committee thanked Corfield for his work as secretary. Clamage asked for volunteers to contact him during the meeting.

1.9.3 Other new business

Koenig agreed to attempt to maintain a Working Draft inline with production of TC1.

2. Organize subgroups, establish working procedures

Clamage recessed J16 at 09:22HST on Wednesday, 20 October, 1999.

3. WG sessions (Core, Library, Performance, possibly others)

4. WG sessions continue

5. WG sessions continue

6. General session

Clamage reconvened the committee at 08:30HST, Monday, 25 October, 1999.

6.1 WG status and progress reports

This was combined with the presentation of DRs below.

6.2 Presentation and discussion of DRs ready to be voted on. Straw votes taken

Core WG

Miller presented the list of DRs that will be brought for a vote, summarized in document D1217 = 99-0041.

Miller presented the following open issues for discussion by the committee:

Issue 136

The Standard says that declarations in different scopes have distinct default arguments. Does it mean "lexical scope", in which case the above is illegal, or "semantic scope", in which case the above is legal.

After some discussion and a straw vote, Miller agreed to take this back to CWG for more work.

Issue 138

Miller will write a paper for the next mailing with a view to describing the actual name lookup process for friend names.

Issue 178

Miller said that problems were discovered with the definition of "value initialization" - part of a DR resolution agreed in Dublin. CWG plan to bring a resolution in Tokyo that extends the context of value-initializations.

Miller called a straw vote on D1217 = 99-0041:

J16: 22 in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

WG21: 6 in favor, none opposed, 1 abstain.

Library WG

Dawes summarised the Library WG progress. He said issues marked "Ready" from 99-0030 = N1206 will be brought forward except for issues 31, 42 and 53 which need more work.

Dawes said that LWG is nowhere near consensus on what to do about vector<bool>. Discussion followed with several people speaking out strongly against removing language or library features.

Performance WG

Kehoe reported on what PWG have been doing for the TR. Much of the work focused on the "Guide for implementors" and it may be renamed to "Implementation techniques". There was a lot of discussion about the performance experiments that members of PWG are conducting on existing implementations. Miller suggested that further detailed discussion be taken back to the WG and on the -perf reflector.

The committee broke into working groups at 10:45HST on Monday, 25 October, 1999.

7. WG sessions continue

8. Review of the meeting

The committee reconvened at 08:17HST on Tuesday, 26 October, 1999.

Clamage noted that the majority of work at this meeting was to continue working on Defect Reports and their resolutions.

8.1 Formal motions, including DRs to be resolved

Motion by Nelson / Adamczyk:

Move that we submit to the Project Editor as Potential Defect Reports all those issues in 99-0041 = N1217 "Core WG Defect Resolutions".

Motion passed J16: 22 in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

Motion passed WG21: 7 in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

Motion by Dawes/Sutter:

Move that we submit to the Project Editor as Potential Defect Reports those issues listed in N1220 = 99-0030.

Motion passed J16: 21 in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

Motion passed WG21: 7 in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

8.2 Review of action items, decisions made, and documents approved by the committee

Koenig noted that the committee now has an action to forward to him, as Project Editor, an exact and complete list of just those issues that we have approved as Potential Defect Reports.

8.3 Issues delayed until Tuesday

Sutter reported on the H2 SQL committee. He said there is no C++ binding yet and members of the committee have expressed interest in helping with defining the binding. Sutter asked for a show of support for working to create the binding: about four or five hands were raised. Clamage said Sutter should offer J16's help to H2.

Clamage announced that Sutter had volunteered to act as secretary. Applause.

Informal motion to thank the host, Tom Plum: Applause.

9. Plans for the future

There was discussion about future meetings (detailed below).

9.1 Next meeting

Plum said that the next meeting would be in Tokyo in April 2000. The dates were confirmed as 16-21 April. This is adjacent to (but not overlapping) the WG14 meeting the previous week. There is currently no J16 sponsor for this meeting - Nelson to check on the process required for this.

9.2 Mailings

Miller said the post-Kona mailing deadline is November 9th, and the pre-Tokyo mailing deadline will be March 7th 2000.

9.3 Following meetings

The October 2000 meeting will be in Toronto sponsored by PeerDirect, IBM and Xerox. The dates will be announced soon but late October seems likely. The meeting will co-locate with WG14, back to back.

The Spring 2001 meeting will be in Copenhagen, again back to back with the WG14 meeting.

For the Fall 2001 meeting, we would prefer a West Coast location, again liasing with WG14 to semi-colocate. For this meeting we may consider overlapping 2 days (Thursday/Friday, as we have in Kona). Caves said he would ask Microsoft if they would host a Seattle meeting.

9.4 Any other business

Plum summarised the discussions from the WG21 meeting regarding the format of the TC. There was a lot of discussion about this. It was suggested that further discussion be conducted on the -edit reflector.

Plauger clarified that the TC needs to document changes but not necessarily related to DRs. The Record of Response must list the DRs so we do not need to tie the changes to actual DRs. O'Riordan concurred.

Motion by Charney/Sutter:

Move we adjourn.

Motion passed WG21+J16: lots in favor, none opposed, none abstain.

Clamage adjourned 09:26HST on Tuesday, 26 October, 1999.

Appendix A - Attendance List

Name

Organization

W

Th

F

M

T

Koenig, Andrew

AT&T

V

V

V

V

V

Stroustrup, Bjarne

AT&T

A

A

A

A

  

Nilsson, Jarl

C Level Design Inc

A

A

A

A

  

Charney, Reg

Charney & Day

V

V

V

V

V

Phillimore, Coleen

Compaq Computer Corp

A

A

A

A

A

Ward, Judy

Compaq Computer Corp

V

V

V

V

V

Kehoe, Brendan

Cygnus Solutions

V

V

V

V

  

Merrill, Jason

Cygnus Solutions

A

A

A

A

V

Becker, Pete

Dinkumware Ltd

A

A

A

A

A

Plauger, P.J.

Dinkumware Ltd

V

V

V

V

V

Plauger, Tana

Dinkumware Ltd

A

A

A

A

A

Adamczyk, Steve

Edison Design Group

V

V

V

V

V

Spicer, John

Edison Design Group

A

A

A

A

A

Vandevoorde, Daveed

Edison Design Group

A

A

A

A

A

Jonsson, Fredrik

Ericsson Inc

V

V

V

V

V

Klarer, Robert

IBM

A

A

A

A

A

Schmeiser, Jamie

IBM

V

V

V

V

V

Wiegley, John

Inprise Corp (aka Borland)

V

V

V

V

V

Nelson, Clark

Intel Corp

V

V

V

V

V

Andersson, Per

Ipso Object Software

V

V

V

V

V

Munch, Max

Lex Hack & Associates

A

A

A

A

A

Han, Yenjo

Mentor Graphics Corp

V

V

V

V

V

Caves, Jonathan

Microsoft

A

A

A

A

A

Laeremans, Ronald

Microsoft

A

A

A

A

  

Corfield, Sean

Object Consultancy Services

V

V

V

V

V

Sutter, Herb

PeerDirect Inc

V

V

  

V

V

Benito, John

Perennial Inc

V

V

V

V

V

Plum, Tom

Plum Hall

V

V

V

V

V

Spencer, Michael

Programming Research

V

V

V

V

V

Wilcox, Thomas

Rational Software Corp

V

V

V

V

V

Sebor, Martin

Rogue Wave Software

V

V

V

V

V

Dawes, Beman

Self

V

V

V

V

V

Miller, William M

Self

A

A

A

A

A

Austern, Matt

SGI

V

V

V

V

V

Clamage, Steve

Sun Microsystems

A

A

A

A

V

Crowl, Lawrence

Sun Microsystems

V

V

V

V

  

Crowfoot, Norm

Xerox Corp

V

V

V

V

V

Myers, Nathan

Zembu Labs

A

A

A

A

A