Meeting date: Wednesday 2002-11-19

Place: National Bank of Greece Training Center, Athens, Greece

Participants: Wolf Arfvidson convener, Richard Hodgkinson editor, Jim Carter (observer), Alain LaBonté, France Lafargue, Kazuaki Nakamura (new observer), Yanis Maistros (new), Yoshihido Nakao (observer, made his last WG6 meeting before retiring), Yves Neuville, Anette Schwuchow (new observer), Kris Urban (new), Yoshikazu Yamamoto and Chae Woo Yoo

See also the new WG6 participation list (2002-11-25).

In all 13 experts attended including two new members, two new observers and the SC35 secretary France Lafargue.

Absenties were Knut Nordby and Keld Simonsen and two new members from Finland, Petri Virtanen and Juri Wuorisalo.

The convener was happy to see this great interest.

The proposed agenda N443 was accepted with some amendments.

No comments were given on the minutes N431 from 2002-06-03--07.

SC35 has a formal liaison to the CEN WS Design for All.

SC35 should ask for liaison with The Design for All Technologies Special Coordination Group (DATSCG).

ICTSB has a kind of coordinating/supervising role in European ICT standardization in CEN, CENELEC and ETSI for our field.

CEN, CENEC and ETSI arrange the conference Accessibility for All 27-28 March 2003 in Nice. This is an event where SC35 (and WG6) should attend and present themselves. A resolution was proposed.

Richard showed amusing Power Point slides from Knut Nordby: Shaping the end.user’s Tel-eEurope. We hope to get copies after Knut’s permission.

Richard made interesting presentations on icons: "Design icons for Software Interfaces" and "Icon clip art and metaphors".

Richard also showed, earlier in the day: Bits and PCs - Icon design for Software Interfaces.

Kris showed that there is not much to be found from the web that is really useful for our work items.

Some pessimism related to difficulties to get substantial input for our specific subjects showed up – especially for design requirements.

The convener reminded that we are working on technical reports - not standards. We may also have to ask for permission to use material from non-SC35-participants.

New legislation in the USA may be used as background.

Swedish documentation on "pictograms" were available.

N463 is a first paper with at least 34 icons found by Richard.

Input is missing from Apple Inc and others.

Richard offered to write a 1st Working Draft for the TR 19765.

A round the table question showed that we can expect more input till next meeting from several countries including Finland, France, Greece, Japan and Korea.

Japan – hosting the next SC35 meeting – has at least three technical committees working in our field. Yoshikazu will invite more participants for our next meeting.

Yanis mentioned Greek research on children and IT-games.

Richard will squeeze the related ISO159/4/5/subgroup for comments.

The work items are concentrated, but not necessarily limited, to visually and hearingly impaired persons. Swedish pictograms are more intended for the mentally retarded.

WG6 still needs to collect information on ongoing work and existing reports and web sites etc of interest for the two work items. Information should be sent to Richard Hodgkinson.

The convener reminded us to modularize, to be humble, to catch and nourish the living targets and that we have to seek cooperation with outside experts.

Jim raised the question and wish from ISOTC159/SC4 to have a joint meeting with SC35 and that this is mainly for 159/4/5/subgroup and our WG6 for mutual information and possible input to the work items. 159/4 wanted this joint meeting to take place in western Canada in the autumn of 2003. This would mean to move our intended meeting with SC35 and the WGs from Berlin and it would also give WG6 hardly any time to meet on its own. The outcome was that such a joint meeting – though possibly useful - will not take place during 2003.

The Europeans can certainly not afford to travel three times in a row outside Europe.

1. These countries have voted yes to actively participate in the work items on TR 19765 and TR 19766: Canada, Finland, France, Japan, Korea and Sweden. At the meeting also Greece expressed that it will try to participate.

2. Change to follow up.

3. Change to next meeting.

4. Change to three weeks before next meeting.

5. Done

6. Add DATSCG, resolution to be adopted in Athens.

7. Continue

The new WG6 web site is at: http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc35/wg6/

See also the updated Actions List 2002-11-25 with more actions.

None.