From owner-sc35wg4+sc35wg4-domo=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Thu Jul 25 17:39:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc35wg4-domo Delivered-To: sc35wg4-domo@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id EB71F357186; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:39:56 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc35wg4@open-std.org Received: from mail-qc0-f180.google.com (mail-qc0-f180.google.com [209.85.216.180]) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D923570D9; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:39:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-qc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id a1so1010930qcx.25 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 08:39:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:x-mailer:date:to:from:subject:cc:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:x-antivirus:x-antivirus-status; bh=xVQZ5PPxCb2XU56GJDbM7x8cXwNCeG1jo3Ke7vqPnUE=; b=BfVPsLXCzbqXVqFzIFE1mwn5BQl74UtgPa9RVwbhXcGed+8wRRWJN3N3HdeyvidMk0 1ICZvdXfkJ9doQ8tS8fHGguqEh8LuUFBYT9AYT5lqG2jfhUV3eZje9Q/I2oloxkBpfZ8 Q83vJ1VL+65mBbHRjUW1CYpGqONXoaCYw9sk71yJmbypupyNOjLHEATPncXdDq6LGztF cKlzBn3alBFsTXsCYih0Os0legh/Nf8aqcwiIHQD2v4bg7RH6LmT8o3Zu70XqR6+YfrF xQWCHnHs5rr/48R42TMcmajgR/HW0e4c0xwpfNofsI8hvOzo4cnCW9tel6HbODGOohEJ YMhA== X-Received: by 10.49.29.106 with SMTP id j10mr16249336qeh.37.1374766794759; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 08:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Ovonel.gmail.com (modemcable096.160-200-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.200.160.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y4sm57685234qai.5.2013.07.25.08.39.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jul 2013 08:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20130725112354.009180c8@gmail.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:35:03 -0400 To: From: Alain LaBonté Subject: Translation problems -- not only with automatic translation, but for humans too Cc: ,,, In-Reply-To: <20130725144048.6F5203570D9@www.open-std.org> References: <20130722092638.B482E357133@www.open-std.org> <7.0.1.0.2.20130725100026.0f6c0cf0@gmail.com> <20130725144048.6F5203570D9@www.open-std.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1324663754==.ALT" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 130725-0, 2013-07-25), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-sc35wg4@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --=====================_1324663754==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le 2013-07-25 à 10:40, Yoshikazu SEKI a écrit : >Dear Alain, > >Thank you very much for your comment. > >French title is automatically translated by translator widget of Mac >OS X. So it must be revised. > >Best regards, [Alain] Problem with translation between English and French is that English does not convey the functional relationship between two nouns in a row (it's even worse when 3 nouns are involved). Now French structurally needs to know what this relationship is for the translation to be accurate, and in fact to be even done (otherwise the translator, machine or human, has to invent this relationship) . There are less problems translating from French to English (certain French prepositions [indicating functional relationship] may -- or not, optionally -- be dropped; English may also use prepositions at once, but it is not considered natural by English speakers, and heavier ; adjectives could also be used : here English would be asier to translate accuretaly if, instead of "voice commands", one would have rather used "vocal commands" as a title). That is a linguistic adaptability issue... _-) Alain LaBonté ____________________ >On 2013/07/25, at 23:02, Alain LaBonté wrote: > > > Looks in line with what was discussed in Busan. > > > > I also sent the folowing private message earlier, I copy it here: > > I note that the French translation of the title " ...Commandes de > voix..." for all parts is not elegant (and not exact too -- we > don't command voice, it is the contrary, voice is commanding). > > It should be " ...Commandes vocales... ". > > Alain --=====================_1324663754==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le 2013-07-25 à 10:40, Yoshikazu SEKI a écrit :
Dear Alain,

Thank you very much for your comment.

French title is automatically translated by translator widget of Mac OS X. So it must be revised.

Best regards,


[Alain]  Problem with translation between English and French is that English does not convey the functional relationship between two nouns in a row (it's even worse when 3 nouns are involved). Now French structurally needs to know what this relationship is for the translation to be accurate, and in fact to be even done (otherwise the translator, machine or human, has to invent this relationship) .

There are less problems translating from French to English (certain French prepositions [indicating functional relationship] may -- or not, optionally -- be dropped; English may also use prepositions at once, but it is not considered natural by English speakers, and heavier ; adjectives could also be used : here English would be asier to translate accuretaly if, instead of "voice commands", one would have rather used "vocal commands" as a title).

   That is a linguistic adaptability issue... _-)

Alain LaBonté
____________________
On 2013/07/25, at 23:02, Alain LaBonté <alabon@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks in line with what was discussed in Busan.
>
> I also sent the folowing private message earlier, I copy it here:
> I note that the French translation of the title " ...Commandes de voix..." for all parts is not elegant (and not exact too -- we don't command voice, it is the contrary, voice is commanding).
> It should be " ...Commandes vocales... ".
> Alain
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