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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 92 14:36:22 MST
From: alm@c3serve.c3.lanl.gov (Alex Marusak)
Message-Id: <9203172136.AA02431@c3serve.c3.lanl.gov.>
To: SC22WG5@dkuug.dk
Subject: Future Procedures
Cc: alm@c3serve.c3.LANL.GOV
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> From SC22WG5-request@dkuug.dk Tue Mar 17 11:33:43 1992
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 92 10:06:38 PST
> From: walt@netcom.com (Walt Brainerd)
> To: SC22WG5@dkuug.dk
> Subject: (SC22WG5.58) Future procedures
>
> > From: adt10@uts.amdahl.com (Andrew D. Tait)
> > To: sc22wg5@dkuug.dk
> > Subject: (SC22WG5.55) WG5L12 Proposal - The Wrong Approach
> >
> > I am both concerned and disappointed that the WG5L12 committee has
> > developed a proposal for the future management of Fortran Standards
> > activities which merely embodies the practices and procedures that have
> > failed us so miserably in recent years.
> >
> > WE NEED A RADICALLY DIFFERENT APPROACH.
> > ...
> > If we have to change the way X3 and/or ISO does business in order to make
> > more effective use of the resources available, we must not hestitate to do
> > so.
>
> As Loren indicates below, I think there is very little chance of
> changing many processes.  The only possibility is to change
> sponsorship from ANSI to IEEE (having recently participated on
> POSIX committees, it seems to me that the politics is closer to
> the technical committee level than at ANSI even) or ISO, which
> does not seem to be interested.  Nothing looks very promising.
>
> > From: meissner@lynx.cs.usfca.edu (Loren P. Meissner)
> >
> >  . . .
> > 1. X3 has tightened its procedures: it used to leave the technical
> > workers much more to their technical work, but now they are watch-
> > dogging much more closely;
> > 2. politically oriented "forces" have left the political ivory tower
> > of X3 and have invaded the technical committee.
> >  If I sound cynical, it is because I am.
> > -Loren Meissner
> > ...
> >
> > From: psmith@mozart.convex.com (Presley Smith)
> > ...
> > The current FORTRAN has been TOO SUCCESSFUL for a bunch of techies to hack
> > on it at will...   Companies have invested BILLIONS of dollars in FORTRAN
> > applications and they want to maintain that investment and not have to
> > invest again.
>
> This is so absurd I am not quite sure how to respond, ...
>
> > ...
> > Grow up Loren.
>
> and make mature, constructive comments like the one above!
>
> > Enough said.  Presley
>
> Too much said.
 
And your mother wears combat boots!!
 
Although we should avoid name-calling and snide remarks (amply demonstrated above),
it does seem that Presley's comments, adamantly denied by the 'other side', point
out the fundamental rift in views that plagued Fortran 90 throughout its history.
 
It just may be that 'procedures' don't have a damn thing to do with it.  Some number
of conservatives think that the progressives were wrong, are now wrong, and will
probably always be wrong.
 
In this regard they are no worse (and no better) than the 'gang of seven' at Jackson
Hole who, by refusing to admit that they had lost, won...
 
A happy St. Patrick's Day to you all,
Alex O'Marusak
alm@lanl.gov