From owner-sc22wg5@dkuug.dk Thu Jul 31 10:42:15 2003 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by dkuug.dk (8.12.8p1/8.9.2) id h6V8gFBS073202 for sc22wg5-domo; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:42:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from owner-sc22wg5@dkuug.dk) X-Authentication-Warning: ptah.dkuug.dk: majordom set sender to owner-sc22wg5@dkuug.dk using -f Received: from fecit.fr ([195.25.240.221]) by dkuug.dk (8.12.8p1/8.9.2) with ESMTP id h6V8g7Ec073194 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:42:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from waveren@fujitsu.fr) Received: from door.fecit.fr (door.fecit.fr [195.25.240.200]) by fecit.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14356; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:38:37 +0200 Received: (from tis-mta@localhost) by door.fecit.fr (8.12.1/8.12.1) id h6V8fu0a002887; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:41:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: door.fecit.fr: tis-mta set sender to using -f Received: from (ndhc20.math.tu-dresden.de [141.30.71.189]) by door.fecit.fr via smap (V2.1) id xma022173; Thu, 31 Jul 03 10:41:55 +0200 Message-ID: <3F28D5EF.93BB6E29@fujitsu.fr> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:40:15 +0200 From: Matthijs van Waveren Organization: Fujitsu Systems Europe Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aleksandar Donev CC: WG5 Subject: Re: (SC22WG5.2902) Nagging Doubts References: <200307272128.h6RLSv3F046000@dkuug.dk> <200307272151.h6RLpmtt046146@dkuug.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sc22wg5@dkuug.dk Precedence: bulk Dear Aleksandar, Thank you for your comments. They are on the table of WG5 in Dresden with paper number N1559. Matthijs van Waveren Aleksandar Donev wrote: > > Hello, > > Here are some comments to Kurt's complaints (most of which I have heard before > in one form or another in various discussions): > > > ==================================== > > Nagging Doubt II: Type Compatibility > > ==================================== > I'll leave this one to Malcolm... > > > ======================================================= > > Nagging Doubt III: The "Value" of a Derived-Type Object > > ======================================================= > > > CALL SUB(X,(X)) > > How is a processor supposed to preserve this > > part of the value for the duration of SUB's execution? > It cannot, so maybe the text that requires that should be modified instead. > Something like the value at the *beginning* of the execution... > > > I suggest that for derived-types, we can give rules for > > enumerating the possible representations that type could have, > > but that enumeration is not the same thing as an enumeration of > > the values of that type. > If you look at my paper which made this "clarification of VALUE", you will see > that I also agree that "value of" is not something the standard can really > define because it depends on what the derived type actually represents (i.e. > the abstraction), but it is not possible to fix this in Fortran now (or maybe > ever). The edits merely try to patch the very *inadequate* definition of > value of in the previous draft which did not at all say anything about the > distinction between ordinary, pointer and allocatable components. The edits > were not meant to provide a great new definition of "value of", as I do not > know how to do that. At least implementors can implement the present text. > And the user who does your CALL SUB(X,(X)) and expects miracles will simply > be reminded not to expect miracles from computers :-( > > Best, > Aleksandar > > -- > NOTE change of primary e-mail to adonev@math.princeton.edu > __________________________________ > Aleksandar Donev > Complex Materials Theory Group (http://cherrypit.princeton.edu/) > Princeton Materials Institute & > Program in Applied and Computational Mathematics > @ Princeton University > Address: > 419 Bowen Hall, 70 Prospect Avenue > Princeton University > Princeton, NJ 08540-5211 > E-mail: adonev@math.princeton.edu > WWW: http://atom.princeton.edu/donev > Phone: (609) 258-2775 > Fax: (609) 258-1177 > __________________________________