ISO/ IEC JTC1/SC22 N2306

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:55:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "william c. rinehuls" <>
Subject: Document SC22 N2306 - WG21 Minutes

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Programming languages, their environments and system software interfaces
Secretariat:  U.S.A.  (ANSI)


October 1996

TITLE:              Minutes of SC22/WG21 (C++) Meeting on July 7-12,
                    1996 in Stockholm, Sweden

SOURCE:             Secretariat, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22

WORK ITEM:          N/A

STATUS:             N/A


DOCUMENT TYPE:      WG21 Meeting Minutes

ACTION:             To SC22 Member Bodies for information.

Address reply to:
ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat
William C. Rinehuls
8457 Rushing Creek Court
Springfield, VA 22153  USA
Tel:  +1 (703) 912-9680
Fax:  +1 (703) 912-2973

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                     ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21 Meeting No. 16
                               7 - 12 July 1996

Sheraton Hotel
Stockholm, Sweden

1     Welcome from convener and host

      Harbison convened the meeting at 18:05 (MESZ) on Sunday, 7 July 1996.
      Saks was the secretary.

1.1   Introduce technical experts

      The attendees introduced themselves.  The attendance list appears as
      Appendix A.

1.2   Adopt agenda

      Harbison presented the proposed agenda SD-0 (revised 28 June 1996), and
      recommended adding the following item:

      2.4   Project Schedule

      WG21 accepted the agenda with this changes.

1.3   Select drafting committee

      Saks explained that the drafting committee normally meets on Wednesday
      evening to draft the formal motions.  Unfortunately, our host scheduled
      a reception for Wednesday evening, so we need to schedule the drafting
      work around it.

      Koenig suggested that the drafting work should be part of the scheduled
      agenda, possibly during the daytime on Thursday.  Saks agreed that
      drafting should be on the agenda, but doing the working in the evening
      is a more effective use of committee time.

      After some discussion, the WG agreed to do as much drafting work as
      possible on Monday and Tuesday evening.  Saks said we should expect some
      of the drafted motions to change as a result of Wednesday's discussion,
      but we should still try to get something in writing for each motion by
      Tuesday night.

      As usual, Saks will coordinate the drafting committee.  Corfield,
      Hartinger, Rumsby and Unruh offered to participate.

1.4   Approve minutes from previous meeting

      Saks submitted N0879 = 96-0061 for approval as the minutes of the
      previous meeting.  WG21 accepted the minutes without change.

1.5   Review action items from previous meeting


1.6   Recognize documents

      Harbison introduced SC24 N 1577 (see item 2.2).

2     New business

2.1   Convener Change

      Harbison said he will not serve another three-year term as WG21 con-
      vener.  The US national body holds the WG21 convenership, and will
      likely nominate Plum to serve as convener.  (A ballot to recommend Plum
      is still in progress in the US TAG.)  If all goes as planned, SC22 will
      approve Plum as WG21 convener at the SC22 plenary in September, 1996.
      Harbison said Plum would then resign as US IR (international Repre-

2.2   Liaison reports

      Soop presented a liaison statement from SC24/WG6 (SC24 N1577).  WG6 is
      developing a standard for object-oriented multimedia functionality
      (PREMO).  They have identified extensions to the C++ language that they
      believe they need to create a PREMO binding for C++, and that may be of
      general use.  Specifically, WG6 would like WG21 to consider extending
      the C++ language to support concurrent processing and synchronization.

      Some WG21 members asked why WG6 thought they needed language extensions
      (as opposed to library facilities) to support their needs.  Soop recom-
      mended that WG21 members contact Ivan Herman from NNI (Netherlands) and
      Jim Van Loo from ANSI (USA) for details.

      Bruck volunteered to look into the issue on behalf of WG21 in coopera-
      tion with Soop.

      Stroustrup mentioned that there's an 800-page report from MIT Press
      (edited by Wilson) which describes 18 different approaches to concur-
      rency in C++.

      Glassborow thought we should stay focused on getting the draft out, and
      consider this request only after we have completed the standard.  Other
      WG21 members agreed.  Bruck said that was desirable.

      Harbison agreed to explain WG6's request to X3J16, and draft a response
      to WG6 along the lines that Glassborow suggested.

      Soop expressed concern that different people are implementing multi-
      threading extensions in different ways.  He would like WG21 to say it
      will address this eventually.  Stroustrup had doubts that everyone could
      agree on a single standard approach to concurrency in C++.

2.3   CD ballot resolution status

      Harbison said he's relying on each NB (national body) delegation to tell
      him if they are satisfied with WG21+X3J16's handling of their comments
      on the last CD (committee draft) ballot.  He invited comments from each

      Kamimura said the progress on extended characters is satisfactory, as is
      the progress on traits and strings, and on template compilation.

      Lajoie said Canada wants to advance the CD, more than it is concerned
      about any particular resolution to template compilation issue.

      Hartinger reported that Germany is still concerned about the template
      compilation model.  He said it's not clear if the new proposal (from
      SGI) can be ready in time to submit the draft for another CD ballot this
      week.  If it is not ready this week, they would prefer to return to the
      Santa Cruz proposal (to allow inclusion only).  Germany is also
      concerned that iostreams is not ready for CD (it has too many open
      issues).  Hartinger added that some of Germany's smaller issues (mostly
      in the library) did not yet get a response from WG21+X3J16.

      Plum explained that he, Schwarz, Clamage, Myers, and le Mouel met in San
      Jose, CA several weeks ago to handle most of the 70 open iostreams
      issues.  They drafted proposed resolutions which they will present to
      the Library WG this week.  Harbison asked Hartinger to review Germany's
      ballot comments to see which have not been addressed.

      Bruck said Sweden has two main concerns: 1) keeping the project on
      schedule, and 2) the template compilation model.  He said the SGI
      proposal appears to be a major step toward resolving (2).  Some of
      Sweden's other issues have been handled, some will "drop on floor", and
      at least one (division of negative numbers) has been handled by the C
      committee (SC22/WG14).

      Rumsby said most of the UK's issues have been handled.  Others that
      haven't are just editorial nits.  Lajoie said she thought all the UK's
      issues had been handled.  Rumsby said he wasn't sure, but in any event,
      none of the issues would prevent the UK from voting to advance the draft
      to the next CD ballot.

      Harbison emphasized that holding a third CD ballot would be a BAD THING.
      This second CD should have essentially the form and content of the
      eventual standard.  We should believe that any comments from NBs could
      likely be handled by localized edits to the draft.

      Rumsby said the UK is concerned that incorporating the SGI proposal on
      template compilation would be too big a change for them to vote for CD
      this week.  However, approving the Spicer/Ball proposal (tabled from the
      last meeting) would not.

      Glassborow said he did not want to vote for another CD until he could
      see the actual text of the draft.  He preferred to vote at the start of
      the next meeting (in November).

      Koenig supported Glassborow's position.  He further suggested that we
      begin the next meeting with a formal motion to approve the CD (possibly
      with amendments to correct errors.)  He added that this does not slip
      the project schedule by a full meeting (four months), because WG21 could
      submit the draft for CD immediately after that meeting.  There would not
      be the usual six-week delay to complete the editing after the meeting.
      Rumsby said he thought Koenig's suggestion is what the UK had in mind.

      Harbison said that Koenig's proposal still slips the schedule by a full
      meeting unless we change our meeting dates a little.

      Plum said he personally likes Glassborow's proposal, he's concerned that
      the world will just know that the C++ standard has slipped its schedule

      Koenig said he may be relocating his office in next few months and can't
      commit to any schedule for delivering an updated draft before the
      November meeting.

      Stroustrup asked that WG21 recommend that the technical work on the
      template compilation model be aimed at achieving consensus based on the
      SGI proposal.

      Plum wanted to make it clear that all we are doing is delaying the
      editing meeting until the start of the November meeting.  We don't want
      to delay the solution of any problems until next meeting.  Others agreed
      that WG21 would like all substantive changes to C++ to be made by the
      end of this week.

3.0   Other business


4     Closing

4.1   Assign permanent document numbers

      See SD-1 for document numbers.

4.2   Review action items and issues


4.3   Recess

WG21 recessed at 20:55 on Sunday and reconvened in joint session with X3J16.
See the corresponding WG21+X3J16 meeting minutes (N0880 = 96-0062).

Appendix A - Attendance

Name                Affiliation; (*) = Head of Delegation

Lajoie, Josee       Canada (*)
Harbison, Sam       Convener
Stroustrup, Bjarne  Courtesy
Hartinger, Roland   Germany (*)
Unruh, Erwin        Germany
Kamimura, Tsutomu   Japan (*)
Koshida, Ichiro     Japan
Umekawa, Ryuichi    Japan
Bruck, Dag          Sweden (*)
Jonsson, Fredrik    Sweden
Soop, Karl          Sweden
Corfield, Sean      UK
Glassborow, Francis UK
Rumsby, Steve       UK (*)
Southworth, Mark    UK
Clamage, Steve      USA / X3J16 Chair
Koenig, Andrew      USA / Project Editor
Plum, Thomas        USA (*)
Saks, Dan           USA / Secretary
Plauger, P. J.      WG14 Convener

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