From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Mon Nov 4 02:59:23 2024 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id CE23E357007; Mon, 4 Nov 2024 02:59:23 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-qk1-f172.google.com (mail-qk1-f172.google.com [209.85.222.172]) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62043356B55 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2024 02:59:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-qk1-f172.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b13bf566c0so239405585a.3 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:59:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stevelionel.com; s=google; t=1730685562; x=1731290362; darn=open-std.org; h=in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=eNpwlQX4XmmIK/yRL4IGgXKHyMmHGvkUItFqfsMGpWA=; b=qUjRvXvnb9PmqiEAW/t5JY5ZsmWFq2lbrgoR3kAMVkdg9hR5W4qVEeSYnkvfqSUA4N JHFR6X/yxrfLiC0yW3KFuHEaPmxDJpLQCCi8e88jAv0FMdsmG08Ehc9HbDf0nxReTlOm 7RPAt/n7hPMydfotdFrZrQHoPlXizllv8xf3I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730685562; x=1731290362; h=in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eNpwlQX4XmmIK/yRL4IGgXKHyMmHGvkUItFqfsMGpWA=; b=RvP8wHP7Rq9IGpWtVq9wJ9RbL0HxF6usz1Qt6a9xNogvEudJkixiOnCDEN+DYH6Z2a +hO5ooeEMcUzX+gdvVw+BbptZ7njaRX6NPWFIOmWU4YpjSlXW9IJ6FHY2lN/fEPSlVHQ Opc/06XA+AVVpFm2Fevl6oYLr4W7Y+SPWaGFLDxV5CtAy4JDg6GDCMeZAbL1MJnrYEm7 rmxJd0nmbK0OEb4Kxl7aGobkklMz4ZfiHlNmfmYX3y1270xvvrduq4Mbl0eSG5avTy9A yQqiOqeIvsrONhHR+v3uG7vQGZFFXZ3PAuWBJtuNbqbH5D652RO9ZWdfQF2zVhkXiydn t41g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YywLAfVfjkcg9UPZTuIyMcAiEW3rnYgHdd85XlohKijHZOG8VTa bkaOrdjTMIjYqLHtqu0M8a8rBoxRdUezNVEbX8BNlOiUCBIgv4QSBBecNKJ1tfiKiW77MhUnwhX O X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHOyvQjlCJh9zccG+mCytqf95m+iLe33QlQJHk/91j6PzEJs9wOA3VfhpAF1iVwHzWu62aTwQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:280a:b0:7b1:4df0:5580 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b1aede0ff6mr2440058485a.39.1730685561661; Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.203] ([216.212.3.233]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7b2f3a0c14asm375984685a.59.2024.11.03.17.59.20 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:59:20 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------a76qs7I17lG0rTNaDVD9GQ0n" Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:59:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [J3] [SC22WG5.6612] Fwd: [SC 22 Convenors] ISO On-line Standards Development platform To: WG5 List References: <8e32d414-7bb1-451c-833f-3ba386c9be35@dmk.com> <20241104012411.483A5356C62@www.open-std.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Steve Lionel X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett In-Reply-To: <20241104012411.483A5356C62@www.open-std.org> Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------a76qs7I17lG0rTNaDVD9GQ0n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What I am hearing now is that all we need do is ask, indicating that we currently use LaTeX. I hope that is true. Steve On 11/3/2024 8:24 PM, Steve Lionel via J3 wrote: > > I do hope that we will be allowed to continue using LaTeX. Or, seek to > publish under a different standards body. > > Steve > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: [SC 22 Convenors] ISO On-line Standards Development platform > Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:19:38 -0800 > From: David Keaton > To: Jeff Shimoda , Steve Lionel > , Pat Rogers , Robert > Seacord (Woven Planet) , 'Ulrich > Neumerkel' , Herb Sutter > , Stephen Michell > , Yong Woo Lee > CC: Bill Ash > > > > Dear SC 22 Convenors, > > In the JTC 1 plenary today, there was a rather shocking announcement > that everyone should know about. Starting January 1, 2025, all > projects will be required to use the ISO On-line Standards Development > (OSD) platform unless they can provide a technical justification why > the OSD cannot be used. > > For many revisions of existing documents, the use of typesetting > systems such as LaTeX would preclude the use of the OSD. However, for > new documents, there might not be a way to avoid the OSD. > > The problem with the OSD is that it allows ISO editors to go in and > make any modifications they wish. We have had many problems with ISO > making changes that they think are editorial, but have actually > changed the technical meaning of documents. More bluntly, the use of > OSD implies a level of trust in ISO that has not been earned. > > One way to avoid this problem is to publish new TR- and TS-like > documents in alternate venues, such as SC 22 white papers. A white > paper has no ISO editing or development requirements, and only > requires approval at the SC 22 level. > > David > --------------a76qs7I17lG0rTNaDVD9GQ0n Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
What I am hearing now is that all we need do is ask, indicating that we currently use LaTeX. I hope that is true.

Steve

On 11/3/2024 8:24 PM, Steve Lionel via J3 wrote:

I do hope that we will be allowed to continue using LaTeX. Or, seek to publish under a different standards body.

Steve



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [SC 22 Convenors] ISO On-line Standards Development platform
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:19:38 -0800
From: David Keaton <dmk@dmk.com>
To: Jeff Shimoda <jshimoda137@gmail.com>, Steve Lionel <steve@stevelionel.com>, Pat Rogers <rogers@adacore.com>, Robert Seacord (Woven Planet) <robert.seacord@woven-planet.global>, 'Ulrich Neumerkel' <ulrich@complang.tuwien.ac.at>, Herb Sutter <herb.sutter@gmail.com>, Stephen Michell <Stephen.Michell@maurya.on.ca>, Yong Woo Lee <ywlee@uos.ac.kr>
CC: Bill Ash <bash@itic.org>


Dear SC 22 Convenors,

In the JTC 1 plenary today, there was a rather shocking announcement that everyone should know about. Starting January 1, 2025, all projects will be required to use the ISO On-line Standards Development (OSD) platform unless they can provide a technical justification why the OSD cannot be used.

For many revisions of existing documents, the use of typesetting systems such as LaTeX would preclude the use of the OSD. However, for new documents, there might not be a way to avoid the OSD.

The problem with the OSD is that it allows ISO editors to go in and make any modifications they wish. We have had many problems with ISO making changes that they think are editorial, but have actually changed the technical meaning of documents. More bluntly, the use of OSD implies a level of trust in ISO that has not been earned.

One way to avoid this problem is to publish new TR- and TS-like documents in alternate venues, such as SC 22 white papers. A white paper has no ISO editing or development requirements, and only requires approval at the SC 22 level.

David


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