From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Mon Nov 4 02:24:11 2024 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 1FEF1357007; Mon, 4 Nov 2024 02:24:11 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-qt1-f169.google.com (mail-qt1-f169.google.com [209.85.160.169]) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BF3356B55 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2024 02:24:10 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-qt1-f169.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4609967ab7eso28744901cf.3 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:24:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stevelionel.com; s=google; t=1730683449; x=1731288249; darn=open-std.org; h=in-reply-to:from:to:references:content-language:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/hhaoIMy3vb/eiUBZeW7wGtb7zCxTJctf3SqLNpcK8E=; b=VhFzAEN+QK4CHfjxbV+fr7tkTfaiTjVFrqtbcMJqnnuXKvGwXFmZPY3I4z8B8O0X+H tO8lrVyQ0/FrOW2cyhxg3F7XEDl9eI/3g63brvu8H1jzy27/pU0vkloB6nAlws0a/4Cp qS+LF6m2GcmmjaBXjMf8zDnvKj/RcfqN97Gow= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730683449; x=1731288249; h=in-reply-to:from:to:references:content-language:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/hhaoIMy3vb/eiUBZeW7wGtb7zCxTJctf3SqLNpcK8E=; b=cNZViXgHlk6oOh5UfhazXWC8g/7VzOUdscwDDTwcxPVAQmzOsqrrfWKnUJA82jExkM vhlrEZgBiFB3h40miIB1IiM83HbqeKhrNPkV/wvDqvBR9E1KM3SzcCGbV9KnEA9WrR5s 8r7F7t/ICAnMUJFdkhRKVsrVa8K1NXu0IBVHAn65G2NsR+VoABiGZ1jAJh7mehtIjzqn GRYrwigi77hzrQc17ti37vZ0bXu4pHrupfD1M37qwfxxBLmF6BaiI+4ltl6W7Jnzl9j8 zyUorFU4pe/SUP301+1pn+P7GStCyJ0v0O24vT/zEnnuR7xv8+hFTRDardgPFa2OU8tx yVtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyaz8mavb+Ds009aF0ammwm8HAq2ViTHNCoSsEXFHbohqPRdxsf mCWchFdW9afpiOfccIJdM26ws0B9qxAXp6A6fJiQZDgX36lJ1AwsX9mNhHRTyWV/m5cimxdfByK 3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGH7g5v4+29R0KCuZ7xjtjOqiA38LPsYgLfUkBOYhMBy7f3fHsp+pq0rajJ3Ajpepyz97tyAw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:45:b0:458:4fe5:b307 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4613bfb6abdmr432071801cf.10.1730683448795; Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:24:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.203] ([216.212.3.233]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-462ad0896e9sm41856691cf.11.2024.11.03.17.24.07 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:24:08 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5qGeajLUmXB6J5tbU0Tyel85" Message-ID: <936cbf95-c102-4572-9d7b-ea26e4fe427f@stevelionel.com> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:24:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Fwd: [SC 22 Convenors] ISO On-line Standards Development platform Content-Language: en-US References: <8e32d414-7bb1-451c-833f-3ba386c9be35@dmk.com> To: WG5 List From: Steve Lionel X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett In-Reply-To: <8e32d414-7bb1-451c-833f-3ba386c9be35@dmk.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <8e32d414-7bb1-451c-833f-3ba386c9be35@dmk.com> Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5qGeajLUmXB6J5tbU0Tyel85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do hope that we will be allowed to continue using LaTeX. Or, seek to publish under a different standards body. Steve -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [SC 22 Convenors] ISO On-line Standards Development platform Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:19:38 -0800 From: David Keaton To: Jeff Shimoda , Steve Lionel , Pat Rogers , Robert Seacord (Woven Planet) , 'Ulrich Neumerkel' , Herb Sutter , Stephen Michell , Yong Woo Lee CC: Bill Ash Dear SC 22 Convenors, In the JTC 1 plenary today, there was a rather shocking announcement that everyone should know about. Starting January 1, 2025, all projects will be required to use the ISO On-line Standards Development (OSD) platform unless they can provide a technical justification why the OSD cannot be used. For many revisions of existing documents, the use of typesetting systems such as LaTeX would preclude the use of the OSD. However, for new documents, there might not be a way to avoid the OSD. The problem with the OSD is that it allows ISO editors to go in and make any modifications they wish. We have had many problems with ISO making changes that they think are editorial, but have actually changed the technical meaning of documents. More bluntly, the use of OSD implies a level of trust in ISO that has not been earned. One way to avoid this problem is to publish new TR- and TS-like documents in alternate venues, such as SC 22 white papers. A white paper has no ISO editing or development requirements, and only requires approval at the SC 22 level. David --------------5qGeajLUmXB6J5tbU0Tyel85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I do hope that we will be allowed to continue using LaTeX. Or, seek to publish under a different standards body.

Steve



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [SC 22 Convenors] ISO On-line Standards Development platform
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:19:38 -0800
From: David Keaton <dmk@dmk.com>
To: Jeff Shimoda <jshimoda137@gmail.com>, Steve Lionel <steve@stevelionel.com>, Pat Rogers <rogers@adacore.com>, Robert Seacord (Woven Planet) <robert.seacord@woven-planet.global>, 'Ulrich Neumerkel' <ulrich@complang.tuwien.ac.at>, Herb Sutter <herb.sutter@gmail.com>, Stephen Michell <Stephen.Michell@maurya.on.ca>, Yong Woo Lee <ywlee@uos.ac.kr>
CC: Bill Ash <bash@itic.org>


Dear SC 22 Convenors,

In the JTC 1 plenary today, there was a rather shocking announcement that everyone should know about. Starting January 1, 2025, all projects will be required to use the ISO On-line Standards Development (OSD) platform unless they can provide a technical justification why the OSD cannot be used.

For many revisions of existing documents, the use of typesetting systems such as LaTeX would preclude the use of the OSD. However, for new documents, there might not be a way to avoid the OSD.

The problem with the OSD is that it allows ISO editors to go in and make any modifications they wish. We have had many problems with ISO making changes that they think are editorial, but have actually changed the technical meaning of documents. More bluntly, the use of OSD implies a level of trust in ISO that has not been earned.

One way to avoid this problem is to publish new TR- and TS-like documents in alternate venues, such as SC 22 white papers. A white paper has no ISO editing or development requirements, and only requires approval at the SC 22 level.

David

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