From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Thu Sep 3 19:53:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 07BF23589A8; Thu, 3 Sep 2020 19:53:41 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from sonic307-10.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic307-10.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA4B357295 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2020 19:53:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s2048; t=1599155617; bh=I3K4P3XfsYcrB/ToSi017LxuT8nLhGzd1atGhs+xv2w=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From:Subject; b=NSKSbiG3JOn13aJP8W68mr0QWUzVLdAuv6I5fc0ueqzcImIvody/54jyuyL36HvhQ7rxiux/8O5H/z1jVYmHxVZ3YsLe4ac007qONVCAyIxE2ty1nBvl3kz59NIokar8Kq+KybqIoLG2aR1kkiCAMvntaqZL9gLRvBc3LGZgHaaNX+qkH8sSxn6i2+VoxPFp8mvuaBD1abRWA12fWa/7wneoPs102epZQxiODGqn6WLIdGBLNgD8rrreQONZovb2ah0CDvRfiLiuNuZKiYh5Kx9319ue+1tjUWX0WjV6/URLkH5KpSpk6/Q3EJ8ZxXMAf0w2z4yNnhegGfHV42idaQ== X-YMail-OSG: xHUQaxUVM1lb.PgZ2XxxrO4gib3zMQbAXIRitAGfZavmAhdP.fRPY4.WqP9k6gN 4GeniAJpIM6xGq1.ou.4N6tjtdX9K1x8SKaC8EAqKiWBCfyXUBxsS0uO.lv8AHfg_WiO83mKgDZh aeJ7oQ1MDmXGv6lY5XvHtQwaOeekZyvzaBtFgHsb9Kt8Y0piVQmbyEF3lJchAyYZIhA1A81PKduy h7UBpRXX534xbj3Xa3ipgtESyQoqBBq6Bs1Y2TOVXAvHTvt8RDshkyvmmHIJK36ew3AugsK7KFoK S4EJwGq17ncq07zFzzEy4LM_gYW3OQ_qx6aW33lLxqLsl5yQazTZ1pkAmb9giZH4G5Zx8Az1_J2o zolTiFSyiJCqBnZPdMOHOwPlZaGaX485z.sPu2Efow2YEU6nbwneVGmygTQV2WY6SK59addbQZ7L lVkmN9PN18G9oO5Fes6HgHoi91UMcnF09mvZuCH5i97nb47q1oiRg25B_RLCGBZRjti_bLHH84RD bIMBiBzLwDlgl8b6dpY37zL9gL8dw3N8ZA79vd13MMZI0w79LOPMvRNVE2JxV74NN3CbNKIUmzV8 lbbG5EYYgdZCSPzdbTGbbVkIzDhUHIkH9aOK_vQEs_FRHOf08YuOJtMpzWuXY_rKOIjA5B0IRkJ. MA_Mpx2PZ52j2yRD7MV6dGP9HGb7UN5MBsqCCG3PeY7KFK9aq2B_c4nbaDtrxbolRyYEcXzHh3J. qf9t9v2K1TkNCSYVDSZWVMF2xew.MoUH2pah7.FUJl.HpqcHqW.nl6F3Xg15ktNQ8z57t70KBOOv Su3iIDhu.XSoA_c8sea_CuHTC_ltx0iO4Iqy4WKZbKrU7PN_bUkNBz.C.tGPPbc.lVopQ6tOYna_ Nxt4.W0BtQrhP3Vy.Y_9IWxi8WqCJN3ButXUkR08kh3I9Udq47FC4OCUIb6T6RHVRMAcMS.YWSJ3 6oIYhfHiz2phNy3hsxS1zKUoMdJFMP8Uq4viOSgwmIp9vMoEeeKfIhcJjwks2kKQHZRQGoWFGwmn w9pBLxqMBKtnjuba9HrmfL.dwnlUP_YC5dAp8rz0OrZx8r.8BbaTZfsssN0mLLmwBd7A9ou32MCx df5QAF9lOhTwvKYc69h2qVQceXWcxua94vhWJigSFADoFUHCvs8PQYQZeNrCdw.0ReNbeCtOpnPj LzitOKi6MBYhaE7Ubs6XY.K1DJpAckPkOB6BxbxSoyvehcIwnI6AmenEox78Flq.cdxS3VVdohFk s4byAoWQGFDgaL5iVuKXXI1laJbRSactokxS98yTLY_pEpuYEqzzXesMcN.Dr_2w1jK2EN6UKTHX LuzaC92E_GI391wnsFESs3FABo17.rl6.MmCoipQ872zKr390VScoxOo4McmEEiqYLm2OSDLLhkk 1twsqTe10i4r_WwnqXWThbBkEWm6Iz9Mh92EZMgt4OLO.gyCICLX5exRf9N8DpTdaef1f2B8b_pq OKF6MFQSW5io_Apn8oTB5IVMgjC_O4Z9OJLf8ZiZLKTyn Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 3 Sep 2020 17:53:37 +0000 Received: by smtp405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID ef3e328f5cf03d03451aa5cf96791227; Thu, 03 Sep 2020 17:53:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1c0c510d12fae6f183786a6d9048df5c3a8443fc.camel@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [J3] (SC22WG5.6285) SC22 Resolutions From: Van Snyder To: sc22wg5 Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2020 10:53:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20200903163033.C0687358485@www.open-std.org> References: <20200901164121.7F3CD3588BC@www.open-std.org> <20200903163033.C0687358485@www.open-std.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-hL3sxEWOKQJah4Q3zdQu" User-Agent: Evolution 3.30.5-1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16565 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --=-hL3sxEWOKQJah4Q3zdQu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2020-09-03 at 17:30 +0100, David Muxworthy via J3 wrote: > Steve did well to stop the large WGs imposing their needs, mainly > concerns about hotel costs, onto the smaller ones like Fortran and > Cobol. It seemed to be taken for granted that full remote > participation should be allowed in future but there was no discussion > about sensibly facilitating participants from very different time > zones; it was however mentioned that being away from one's usual work > environment could be beneficial. But it is not a case of one size > fits all. There is a huge difference between short administrative > meetings like the SC22 plenary (5 hours' business spread over two days > plus 1.5 hours for the drafting committee) where essentially nothing > new comes up during the meeting, and the long, creative technical > meetings traditionally held by WG5/J3. > > As Steve says, Fortran will have to devise a remote method of working > during the emergency but I hope that face-to-face meetings remain the > norm in the long run. > > David Muxworthy I agree with David that face-to-face meetings are productive. But when they are permitted again, remote collaboration should be continued. Many good ideas for Fortran have been proposed, agreed, developed somewhat, and then dropped to meet the schedule. If more had been done between meetings, these projects could have been completed. Failing that, a multi-release schedule should be developed so that significant and important projects are not dropped completely just to meet a single release schedule. --=-hL3sxEWOKQJah4Q3zdQu Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, 2020-09-03 at 17:30 +0100, David Muxworthy via J3 wrote:
Steve did well to stop the large WGs im=
posing their needs, mainly
concerns about hotel costs, onto the s=
maller ones like Fortran and
Cobol.  It seemed to be taken for gr=
anted that full remote
participation should be allowed in future =
but there was no discussion
about sensibly facilitating participa=
nts from very different time
zones; it was however mentioned that=
 being away from one's usual work
environment could be beneficial=
.  But it is not a case of one size
fits all.  There is a huge di=
fference between short administrative
meetings like the SC22 plen=
ary (5 hours' business spread over two days
plus 1.5 hours for th=
e drafting committee) where essentially nothing
new comes up duri=
ng the meeting, and the long, creative technical
meetings traditi=
onally held by WG5/J3.

As Steve says, Fortran will=
 have to devise a remote method of working
during the emergency b=
ut I hope that face-to-face meetings remain the
norm in the long =
run.

David Muxworthy

I agree with David that face-to-face meetings are productive. But =
when they are permitted again, remote collaboration should be continue=
d.

Many good ideas for Fortran have been proposed,=
 agreed, developed somewhat, and then dropped to meet the schedule. If more=
 had been done between meetings, these projects could have been completed.<=
/div>

Failing that, a multi-release schedule should be d=
eveloped so that significant and important projects are not dropped complet=
ely just to meet a single release schedule.



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