From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Tue Sep 1 18:41:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 60079358ACD; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 18:41:21 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-qv1-f43.google.com (mail-qv1-f43.google.com [209.85.219.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71B7356E7D for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 18:41:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f43.google.com with SMTP id m14so826876qvt.1 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2020 09:41:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stevelionel.com; s=google; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language; bh=ISPAqzfC5JPNw8s0VN+T/CukjVJFqiivlrE4tv1ug4A=; b=jkyYO4zKzEvItHlOGDfqbBOsnJwtMjlDjywFFVQVeP8y8PKbsLHf7cjgs990rVQHD0 KbajXD7n+Ws1VIeSCfLCg8gtjfF6Xt7fmrOeQa+xPPAHLln2u+beaC7hzeKG8ukzlQmJ tFZnpsPc5cjuai3jo7nM4cnl956+0WrPcojOc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language; bh=ISPAqzfC5JPNw8s0VN+T/CukjVJFqiivlrE4tv1ug4A=; b=WkIl2mhhd24Kz7+CJSa/Ft9MkRCJc0hAqgjwljniFn3/sPkpZllMV/CqJX7lBkZ1Ae aA9ng9+0RG5dzN0uOuw5/O881lmgTQDaVKWPDQLnr9px9Lu20aXv1Rv4m98VvdBeAMOH 4fH30RJdpE0gES7VnZjSaR56X8msCqRKSrvUGA5OrHtjmGvvqk2NhXqhqOEkgyrdeVQy HbbCpwBQeydTCpn27hcgNzMAlBpaydHPzxE6lKLqOEEvkC4h6IDypXD9v+vuwnnbpLCL qcYiGD4NDZNTXXWPgq2zdCgumhDJGMRTyxVMPuKu9Kigb6USgw9H9bnPHSHdCQbhIjZb Ka/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533OS1gwNut+hoa61YKlDJi9eL9aI39iTRPbrLFWX0xByyGPFboJ 1NWEgr4pwh+gsygDDNAEu4iZIAvnuvHGEMEw X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyiqHpQ9ETTJHrd46VzH7blwqOzLXc7enqhROMO5lnLdwNTR6U2a1WQVaHoB8wfs8bl26GFZQ== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:510b:: with SMTP id g11mr2801736qvp.20.1598978478608; Tue, 01 Sep 2020 09:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([71.255.115.200]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v28sm2177704qtk.28.2020.09.01.09.41.17 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Sep 2020 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT) To: WG5 List From: Steve Lionel Subject: SC22 Resolutions X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <770555bf-33e6-db29-660d-714d87d3a446@stevelionel.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 12:41:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------867C0D4FB27A241BE8E42AF9" Content-Language: en-US Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------867C0D4FB27A241BE8E42AF9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The ISO JTC1/SC22 Plenary just ended, and there were several resolutions that affect WG5. There was a long discussion about in-person WG meetings. WG14 (C) and WG21 (C++) have a problem in that they have made financial commitments to hotels two years out, and they wanted "air cover" from SC22 to allow them to cancel without penalty. Initially the proposal was to ban physical meetings entirely through 2023 with SC22 revisiting that at its next plenary (August 2021). I objected that this would block WG5 from holding its next meeting in June 2021, even if it seemed safe to do so, and I suggested adding a "more than X attendees" qualifier to the resolution (WG14/WG21 meetings are usually in excess of 250 attendees!) This was accepted, and the resolution now states: *Resolution 20-06: Face-to-face Meetings* JTC 1/SC 22 resolves to prohibit face-to-face meetings for JTC 1/SC 22 Working Group meetings where the expected face-to-face attendance exceeds 100 attendees until further notice. This will provide JTC 1/SC 22 WGs with sufficient lead time for face-to-face meeting planning. This will be revisited at the next JTC 1/SC 22 plenary. This works for us. Obviously we'll have to see what the pandemic situation is in early 2021, but we have the flexibility - unless ISO JTC1 or all of ISO extends the current restrictions (that go only three months out, a big problem for WG14/WG21). Next was: *Resolution 20-07: Face-to-face Meetings Provisions* JTC 1/SC 22 Working Group meetings being held face-to-face shall provide the facilities to allow for full remote participation, which includes voting.  This will be revisited at the next JTC 1/SC 22 plenary. Generally WG5 hosts have teleconferencing equipment that will allow us to do this, but we're going to have to change our procedures to enable "full remote participation" if the meeting is held partly in-person. I picked up some useful tips during the SC22 Plenary, which was entirely virtual. At some point, J3 will also need to address this - our current arrangements don't work even for in-person meetings (too small) and we have no teleconferencing equipment. The October 2020 meeting is already entirely virtual and I suspect February 2021 will be as well. J3 needs to start preparing now for virtual attendance. A third resolution affecting us was: *Resolution 20-03: Project Source Files * In order to ensure that all working groups are able to continue standards development and not have a single point of failure, JTC 1/SC 22 directs that all of its WGs shall have a recent copy of the project source file(s) for each project on ISO Documents. The prime motivation for this was WG4 (COBOL), where the project editor died unexpectedly last November. That committee had a hard time reconstructing the work, thus the new requirement that up-to-date document sources be uploaded to the ISO Documents web site. Malcolm has been uploading his SVN repository bundles to the Edit subfolder on the J3 site, and I'll copy that to ISO Documents. *Malcolm*, would you please also upload to Edits your latest repository of F202X work when you have the next draft? I'll copy it to ISO Documents then. Another item of interest is that Dan's WG23 chapter on vulnerabilities for Fortran was upgraded from a Preliminary Work Item to an Active Project. Lastly, David Keaton was renominated as SC22 chair and I was renominated as WG5 Convenor. This then goes to ISO JTC1 for a country vote. Steve --------------867C0D4FB27A241BE8E42AF9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

The ISO JTC1/SC22 Plenary just ended, and there were several resolutions that affect WG5.

There was a long discussion about in-person WG meetings. WG14 (C) and WG21 (C++) have a problem in that they have made financial commitments to hotels two years out, and they wanted "air cover" from SC22 to allow them to cancel without penalty. Initially the proposal was to ban physical meetings entirely through 2023 with SC22 revisiting that at its next plenary (August 2021). I objected that this would block WG5 from holding its next meeting in June 2021, even if it seemed safe to do so, and I suggested adding a "more than X attendees" qualifier to the resolution (WG14/WG21 meetings are usually in excess of 250 attendees!) This was accepted, and the resolution now states:

Resolution 20-06: Face-to-face Meetings
JTC 1/SC 22 resolves to prohibit face-to-face meetings for JTC 1/SC 22 Working Group meetings where the expected face-to-face attendance exceeds 100 attendees until further notice. This will provide JTC 1/SC 22 WGs with sufficient lead time for face-to-face meeting planning. This will be revisited at the next JTC 1/SC 22 plenary.

This works for us. Obviously we'll have to see what the pandemic situation is in early 2021, but we have the flexibility - unless ISO JTC1 or all of ISO extends the current restrictions (that go only three months out, a big problem for WG14/WG21).

Next was:

Resolution 20-07: Face-to-face Meetings Provisions
JTC 1/SC 22 Working Group meetings being held face-to-face shall provide the facilities to allow for full remote participation, which includes voting.  This will be revisited at the next JTC 1/SC 22 plenary.

Generally WG5 hosts have teleconferencing equipment that will allow us to do this, but we're going to have to change our procedures to enable "full remote participation" if the meeting is held partly in-person. I picked up some useful tips during the SC22 Plenary, which was entirely virtual.

At some point, J3 will also need to address this - our current arrangements don't work even for in-person meetings (too small) and we have no teleconferencing equipment. The October 2020 meeting is already entirely virtual and I suspect February 2021 will be as well. J3 needs to start preparing now for virtual attendance.

A third resolution affecting us was:

Resolution 20-03: Project Source Files
In order to ensure that all working groups are able to continue standards development and not have a single point of failure, JTC 1/SC 22 directs that all of its WGs shall have a recent copy of the project source file(s) for each project on ISO Documents.

The prime motivation for this was WG4 (COBOL), where the project editor died unexpectedly last November. That committee had a hard time reconstructing the work, thus the new requirement that up-to-date document sources be uploaded to the ISO Documents web site. Malcolm has been uploading his SVN repository bundles to the Edit subfolder on the J3 site, and I'll copy that to ISO Documents. Malcolm, would you please also upload to Edits your latest repository of F202X work when you have the next draft? I'll copy it to ISO Documents then.

Another item of interest is that Dan's WG23 chapter on vulnerabilities for Fortran was upgraded from a Preliminary Work Item to an Active Project.

Lastly, David Keaton was renominated as SC22 chair and I was renominated as WG5 Convenor. This then goes to ISO JTC1 for a country vote.

Steve

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