From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Mon Jun 22 17:14:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 744543587E0; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 17:14:05 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-lf1-f44.google.com (mail-lf1-f44.google.com [209.85.167.44]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EE9135711D for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 17:14:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f44.google.com with SMTP id o4so9843113lfi.7 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 08:14:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EcGbrpAoF8ayqEZyxOcS5xUwqK4dUMgBW5xpr0c3XpI=; b=sCq7h8Q54rBjpjOqgV/pKcU2Tktwk/MOBWSr4AZ79mxBwTBHOMrCe7pNJ7v7svHTfp akiYP/kgu/N0i1LcW+3fckw0bcPIgg1E1W42JzFObKGds6KzQjJ6uUgbf5zTCsppVlr4 ODCOfttgZ0Noa4qAhSEQI0LBDmRwGI7C9cSaqnIIGZ48gZHuRL2KIyNwsrBZXpiSYO6C bp9yk+aWfhe1fNUu/L4XyggouZS6k0mz2rnlEULeHuwJB4rKwnZfMD9EjARKJUQLrPDH gJZHSUK2VLbF6k8rkeJF/d1qkVNvAhrRynxCHK2hN+Ow6jQV4z6RhCclTkOI5Z/yoEjY JuaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EcGbrpAoF8ayqEZyxOcS5xUwqK4dUMgBW5xpr0c3XpI=; b=EqZB78NNIXh333OfnEv7tJeid3/2a5icvXfzce5P6jj5SM4tc81L36J5bTVfiqz8CK dDxk9NrmU55GcTK2ClBACUghd8U6AAp1LKIWDx02PzuJxuLn/eHXRIZVTaohh1n0nW8R 1IgDAP08lR18FUXPMex9A6NMaiJ0sTYscCdp0z34ei+o4QWoUEYt6cGKT7BFso61b/7J WRhz0iMW47TH1VzB4Bcwf2NsuUdBC1aLCYWUh0bOyTnSGFuTgBB9xUDQJOyWYEJN71jL Z1Qs3ner+W1fGBOsNSJPnoYo3cDZkLWMFXq2mJtcHaA6iJR58P/4kpVAn/i++g2EKAkr OWCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531OMZD0il63CGFjNww2GlWx7Q3ijdDFV7D2GtVRwDCd1Bv610LP UlFUk5zdsppbN8uFEwlt/e/2LzFm7IODBzAzPgo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyKxP9TgfecKj89A999Y2QYGnPg3DTRX2MAm8+LF/CslxQZvDbROodlnt/HHYvWb+K5ojem968A2XEmrd80WFY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:52a:: with SMTP id o10mr10079438lfc.137.1592838843866; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 08:14:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200619235913.262F1358B1A@www.open-std.org> <20200621030514.22AA63587E0@www.open-std.org> In-Reply-To: <20200621030514.22AA63587E0@www.open-std.org> From: Keith Bierman Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 09:13:27 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [J3] (SC22WG5.6246) 2022 WG5 meeting To: General J3 interest list Cc: WG5 List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000079224505a8adb1b3" Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --00000000000079224505a8adb1b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I haven't been monitoring the venue discussion closely; but perhaps revisiting how we got to Las Vegas to begin with may be of historical interest. For the first several decades, the committee always had a local host, the venue changing each meeting. Reasonable effort to balance East, West and Central. I rewife call it getting increasingly difficult to find hosts (early 90's). At a meeting in San Diego (if memory serves; I'm morally certain that subgroup was walking back from dinner at a chinese restaurant), I recall WaltB, Miles Ellis, Jean Martin, JerryW, myself and some others were walking back and discussing the difficulty in finding hosts. I had recently attended a PCF meeting, and noted that they had adopted an interesting scheme of always meeting in Chicago, meeting in a hotel by the airport and flying in/out on overlapping tickets (so discounted without a saturday night stay). Walt's wife was a travel agent, and after some discussion it was suggested that Las Vegas had cheap flights AND cheap hotel rooms. Once back in session, we agreed to give it a shot, and Walt's wife found us very cheap rooms at "Arizona Charlies". Note that at that time, the committee generally needed at least one (sometimes more than 1) printer and at least one shared computer (not everyone was expected to be able to bring a laptop). Arizona Charlies was truly horrible. Tobacco smoke everywhere, dim lighting, in-house casino (unlike the strip, where such places are brightly lit to erase day/night, AC was perpetually in twilight). At the time, it was the most deplorable venue I'd ever attended a meeting at. But people appreciated the discounted airfares and room rates (vs. many of our other venues) and Mallory North was tasked with trying to find us a less deplorable hotel, and he was able to find us a very nice place at attractive rates; so the Committee decided to give Vegas a second shot ... and the rest is history. There was always a tension between wanting to go somewhere (anywhere) else for variety and (for us vendors) leveraging the trip for customer visits and such versus the consistently cheap and "reliable" (we cached a printer and if memory serves, a computer local to LV for several years) facilities. Personally, I was amazed that Las Vegas stuck; when I first floated the idea, I figured we'd do it for a year or so and then finances would open up and local hosts would be forthcoming again and we'd resume the historic peripatetic meeting schedule. My Management at the time rather liked the fairly consistent (and low) pricing; but it wasn't compelling to them (Sun had adequate funding for Standards). I recall some other Committee members at the time really needed the consistent and low pricing (and some were able to drive rather than fly when that worked out better for them financially). Obviously, the Committee needs to work out what works best now. --00000000000079224505a8adb1b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I haven't been monitoring the venue discus= sion closely; but perhaps revisiting how we got to Las Vegas to begin with = may be of historical interest.

For t= he first several decades, the committee always had a local host, the venue = changing each meeting. Reasonable=C2=A0effort to balance East, West and Cen= tral. I rewife call it getting increasingly difficult to find hosts (early = 90's). At a meeting in San Diego (if memory serves; I'm morally cer= tain that=C2=A0 subgroup was=C2=A0walking back from=C2=A0 dinner at a chine= se restaurant), I recall WaltB, Miles Ellis, Jean Martin, JerryW, myself an= d some others were walking back and discussing the difficulty=C2=A0in findi= ng hosts. I had recently attended a PCF meeting, and noted that they had ad= opted an interesting scheme=C2=A0 of always meeting in Chicago, meeting in = a hotel by the airport and flying in/out on overlapping tickets (so discoun= ted without a saturday night stay). Walt's wife was a travel agent, and= after some discussion it was suggested that Las Vegas had cheap flights AN= D cheap hotel rooms. Once back in session, we agreed to give it a shot, and= Walt's wife found us very cheap rooms at "Arizona Charlies".= =C2=A0 Note that at that time, the committee generally needed at least one = (sometimes more than 1) printer and at least one shared computer (not every= one was expected to be able to bring a laptop).=C2=A0

=
Arizona Charlies was=C2=A0 truly horrible. Tobacco smoke = everywhere, dim lighting, in-house casino (unlike the strip, where such pla= ces are brightly lit to erase day/night, AC was perpetually in twilight). A= t the time, it was the most deplorable venue I'd ever attended a meetin= g at.

But people appreciated the dis= counted airfares and room rates (vs. many of our other venues) and Mallory = North was tasked with trying to find us a less deplorable hotel, and he was= able to find us a very nice place=C2=A0at attractive rates; so the Committ= ee decided to give Vegas a second shot ... and the rest is history.

There was always a tension between wanting = to go somewhere (anywhere) else for variety and (for us vendors) leveraging= the trip for customer visits and such versus the consistently cheap and &q= uot;reliable" (we cached a printer and if memory serves, a computer lo= cal to LV for several years) facilities.

Personally, I was amazed that Las Vegas stuck; when I first floated th= e idea, I figured we'd do it for a year or so and then finances would o= pen up and local hosts would be forthcoming again and we'd resume the h= istoric peripatetic meeting schedule.

My Management at the time rather liked the fairly consistent (and low) pr= icing; but it wasn't compelling to them (Sun had adequate funding for S= tandards). I recall some other Committee members at the time really needed = the consistent and low pricing (and some were able to drive rather than fly= when that worked out better for them financially).

Obviously, the Committee needs to work out what works best = now.=C2=A0

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