From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Mon Jun 22 09:36:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 3B711358B89; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 09:36:59 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-qv1-f54.google.com (mail-qv1-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B67A9358B69 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 09:36:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f54.google.com with SMTP id d12so7505144qvn.0 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 00:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sourceryinstitute.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XbCjCKsrnYAkvNAi6F47V5pt+DeqgZIFZfSa2tJqJvQ=; b=SG5zBsG/dSStCtH60JM0My2d6dpbtaec/QpQ9aYhE4LOlf8sjIa6wMG6nO0LV6ZAwh ntDgXSrcuncYpZxTfuBqae620iACaYVlssUC9ZGm0TLnFxQvHME3EXeGBN26CY7y0A1X 971/uEiB1WbtMf85wy4ABughOe1fnep2ISr6ywTUMVziwXHkpAGWdV/i+xgTDtj41JuO fOAmnmweT9ZYvD+bJVP8BcbG7UOrtKkdEXFQgKqQBcfY7+9SuLpgHLUwoWO1Hax9CNW3 nEC4vnVDAQoqWQYkyok8fJf1Ht3wGOFp1tbP004vnAF3FPnzVJPE9wbaSWR46ZmDFRl0 U2Ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XbCjCKsrnYAkvNAi6F47V5pt+DeqgZIFZfSa2tJqJvQ=; b=a+a1eg6JMY3ckWIOwdTFRp6Vo8nZwn3VSG5a2e8Jktrl4YAbsmdvDbRe8BGEQ3zQvm I/rFahAGrPGJinfPoyfT7g27bllqhCt/4irUVzfuDsQmt4/qVsL1+i48BE2xg1J75V1B m527dy1g1G5RKvcrfJFtsNmQwXWOUHwwLgtcOkvjq26D8Pbo/GzscSn+X4iPi3gxdDj3 Gp0UXsO8djgFBk6SZXo4ahTw2u4kuwIpGNmlMyO9KzDIcxxsULvKRP/cafq6kpDMTikq Jy5re2MLA2xqCQDnh76b6ABJYAYFs7zkZiIYhs/Yrkpge7xhhjMYoCzXi76kxOG5ni0y mkIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531ebnDNXJ45u2BW/0v9INlK+iEnnZFpySCL6kcOtqTeeW7krWlY cmxXK4Az4wUcgNFZLlEJ9xQ19mUFCit1p+iD9ZHYGA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxh4pvkP5vvg0YGgm/VMWk0wOvfcsiih3DxBSyMy8Hn6ZaZe2dkVzsTBX6fVlisDlZBS0meYlm30oLWtbrsRv8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:a9db:: with SMTP id c27mr8521491qvb.204.1592811417158; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 00:36:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200619235913.262F1358B1A@www.open-std.org> <20200621030514.22AA63587E0@www.open-std.org> <8267C6CA-DFA7-44C0-B775-233C7E14C5DE@cray.com> <57FC6254-7E57-49B4-8112-8613ECE18B89@cray.com> <20200622004644.286F735711D@www.open-std.org> In-Reply-To: <20200622004644.286F735711D@www.open-std.org> From: Damian Rouson Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 00:36:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [J3] (SC22WG5.6252) 2022 WG5 meeting To: General J3 interest list Cc: WG5 List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b6dba205a8a74e67" Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --000000000000b6dba205a8a74e67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also think that if we are really interested in fostering inclusive dialogue, it=E2=80=99s going to take effort and is certainly going to take = change. I don=E2=80=99t think labeling opposing viewpoints as =E2=80=9Cobsessive ha= tred=E2=80=9D is in any way helpful to promoting discussion. I realize such expressions have long been the norm on this mailing list. I guarantee you that the tenor of discussions here does and has turned people away. It has often come close to driving me away for one and I don=E2=80=99t just mean recently. We can do better. If we want the committee to grow and if we care at all about inclusivity, we have to do better. Damian On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 17:46 Damian Rouson via J3 < j3@mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:34 PM Bill Long via J3 < > j3@mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote: > >> >> The seemingly obsessive hatred of Las Vegas is very hard to understand >> for those of us who have been there. Are you concerned that potential >> attendees with mental health issues related to gambling addiction might = be >> discouraged? Note that the current meeting hotel is NOT on the strip an= d >> is a Marriott, and hence has no casino and is not connected to a casino. >> I=E2=80=99ve never known J3 or PL22.3 to sponsor a =E2=80=9Ccasino night= =E2=80=9D or any activity >> involving gambling. We=E2=80=99re way too busy during the week to have = time for >> something like that. >> >> > I wonder if a Zoom call would be a better forum for some of the > discussions about which opinions differ considerably. I was never a fan = of > Las Vegas as a meeting destination and asked very early in my attendance > (probably at my first meeting around 2013) about how long I should attend > before proposing a venue change. Your response: "about 20 years." I'm > sure that was a joke and I interpreted it as funny. Nonetheless, I took = to > heart that it was a clear statement that the majority of people would > oppose any change for the foreseeable future and I therefore gave up on t= he > idea despite never being comfortable with the destination. > > I thought Brad Richardson's recent email was very helpful in capturing th= e > feelings of a new attendee and the impact that more established members > have on whether newcomers feel welcomed. Were we to have an interactive > discussion via videoconference or teleconference, I would be glad to > explain several reasons why I find Las Vegas to be a problematic venue an= d > I suspect others would have additional reasons. I fear that email is not= a > great medium for such discussions for lots of reasons. > > Damian > --000000000000b6dba205a8a74e67 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also think that if we are really interested in fos= tering inclusive dialogue, it=E2=80=99s going to take effort and is certain= ly going to take change.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t think labeling opposing view= points as =E2=80=9Cobsessive hatred=E2=80=9D =C2=A0is in any way helpful to= promoting discussion.=C2=A0 I realize such expressions have long been the = norm on this mailing list.=C2=A0 I guarantee you that the tenor of discussi= ons here does and has turned people away.=C2=A0 It has often come close to = driving me away for one and I don=E2=80=99t just mean recently. =C2=A0

We can do better.=C2=A0 If w= e want the committee to grow and if we care at all about inclusivity, we ha= ve to do better.=C2=A0

D= amian

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 17:46 Damian Rouson via J3 <j3@mailman.j3-fortran.org> = wrote:


On S= un, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:34 PM Bill Long via J3 <j3@mailman.j3-fortran.org> wro= te:

The seemingly obsessive hatred of Las Vegas is very hard to understand for = those of us who have been there.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Are you concerned that potenti= al attendees with mental health issues related to gambling addiction might = be discouraged?=C2=A0 Note that the current meeting hotel is NOT on the str= ip and is a Marriott, and hence has no casino and is not connected to a cas= ino.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve never known J3 or PL22.3 to sponsor a =E2=80=9Ccasi= no night=E2=80=9D or any activity involving gambling.=C2=A0 We=E2=80=99re w= ay too busy during the week to have time for something like that.

<= /blockquote>

I wonder if a Zoom call would be a better f= orum for some of the discussions about which opinions differ considerably.= =C2=A0 I was never a fan of Las Vegas as a meeting destination and asked ve= ry early in my attendance (probably at my first meeting around 2013) about = how long I should attend before proposing a venue change.=C2=A0 Your respon= se: "about 20 years."=C2=A0 I'm sure that was a joke and I in= terpreted it as funny.=C2=A0 Nonetheless, I took to heart that it was a cle= ar statement that the majority of people would oppose any change for the fo= reseeable future and I therefore gave up on the idea despite never being co= mfortable with the destination.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I thou= ght Brad Richardson's recent email was very helpful in capturing the fe= elings of a new attendee and the impact that more established members have = on whether newcomers feel welcomed.=C2=A0 Were we to have an interactive di= scussion via videoconference or teleconference, I would be glad to explain = several reasons why I find Las Vegas to be a problematic venue and I suspec= t others would have additional reasons.=C2=A0 I fear that email is not a gr= eat medium for such discussions for lots of reasons.

Damian
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