From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Thu Jun 4 02:53:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id B677D358B7D; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 02:53:21 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-oo1-f45.google.com (mail-oo1-f45.google.com [209.85.161.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2D2358B3D for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 02:53:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-oo1-f45.google.com with SMTP id x17so914959oog.6 for ; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 17:53:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0jVr91roUz7axEkx4n7sx5TQDE7P/XFHHWoj/bmI2Xg=; b=MpHJenzpS8+Of7uY2HWqHgisNkfu4SexA8YlBwrpG9FsS8dX7xCp8dgvlLdGku9ypY 1n4VXX+G1pd3kAsYjELCm9aPYJnmHuH1vcCc7148f4ssqrwfyvbqJUcyTgpLo4jf5U86 qRPVsUYKQBsOa94nZDeoAhjqHybyStovRFx5SqpEf0EPxW83euKRGoZ4k7q8N01IbGHV /M72n25dzJXM5MFQ18ARpE0wYs+9oDhF3yEz5VLaC6PJSXRoClr7qkKQ666IAQ/YGRe8 l2TbEmekpWenhLN09TbLYbkgmYaF4/hBYRg+s1JUfj2ZDhTyjnHBjIRxsCWdj84XblK8 UIRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0jVr91roUz7axEkx4n7sx5TQDE7P/XFHHWoj/bmI2Xg=; b=c55nYRfsBxBZFfArqMlDt47Bzq+zg+fJG0TBQrFskn88a4zK7dUl99S7m0ie8R5I0x 2EPBnKT2svKXZqqfVwlT+g12Qj/zVsBXXv1QOsc2I7e0YYpLio/ouvj0IuwQFtWz9agt ugOVVrEv86v6Ifu3WnaJoYmwmZNa5WBaBBV9YGVuKvRL03W5Vy6TJBL4frVhizs+mrnu PfiHvBUup+4O3xWs4aeP3doQrCwTen5zeuYKu4ycK0uv34yvlOB94SbXAl9nw7yFzQhH zz4DRKGIdPv5fuyYkJM32Au3dMsU53MESnmzTOauaIhxh9qOjAqvZaFUUdUbQkneYuSK Rg2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303Iv6WKLl38UzsVBuEKELJLi0HHfhB9LY5OS8gcWpHgp0z/MN7 hnEUAeofacLC8gSxDLCs+pjIDYNWBxghQ9Bm9d0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyF2DZaDa+Dbb1xhH0BdUHtZsgGoma4Auwa0DM4/ISY/tY1ZEDZMAIbS+qmIvyYowlV0GWFknGEWfUxN+B2w6E= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:85c3:: with SMTP id u3mr2006303ooh.78.1591231999604; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 17:53:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200603210748.AE1FB9DB193@www.open-std.org> <65F07E38-6DF2-47B5-A035-351C25AA4046@cray.com> <02826ddbbaeb1de7d85561cea8dc05028075b7cb.camel@sbcglobal.net> In-Reply-To: <02826ddbbaeb1de7d85561cea8dc05028075b7cb.camel@sbcglobal.net> From: Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 17:52:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [J3] (SC22WG5.6224) [Fwd: [SC22] ISO Gender Action Plan Survey] To: General J3 interest list Cc: Van Snyder , WG5 List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk Van, I apologize if I offended you, that was not my intention. Likewise, I'm sorry if you felt that the ISO Gender Action Plan or survey was an attempt to accuse or place blame on you. I understand and sympathize with your desire to express your opinions on this matter. However, there are two issues: (0) the way you expressed your opinion was hurtful to others in this group, and (1) your remarks were off-topic. ISO technical work is governed by a code of conduct, which ensures that ISO is safe, inclusive and welcoming. We have all agreed to follow it by participating. It asks us to refrain from debate or discussion that is disrespectful or offensive /to other participants/. I'm sure you feel that your remarks were not disrespectful or offensive and that it was not your intent to offend anyone. I'm certain that you wouldn't have posted them otherwise. However, neither your interpretation nor your intent matters here; what matters is that others were offended or harmed by your remarks. Of course, there will be times where we inadvertently offend our ISO colleagues. The expectation is that we do our best to not offend or harm others with our behavior. That means we must think carefully about if and how we should express our thoughts. If we do cause offense despite our best efforts, we are expected to rectify the situation. Additionally, WG5 and PL22.3 is not an appropriate place to discuss your personal opinions about gender equality, politics, or education reform. The survey that Steve distributed at the request of the ISO Council contained information about how to provide feedback and ask questions about the ISO Gender Action Plan and survey (you email gender@iso.org). Imagine for a moment that you are a young female compiler engineer subscribed to this mailing list or reviewing the archive. Such an individual probably already feels like an outsider, an imposter, someone who does not belong. Such an individual might interpret your post as a signal that gender equality is not important to this group and might confirm their fear that they do not belong. The strength of that signal can be increased if no one spoke up contrary to your post, which is one of the reasons that I have chosen to respond to you publicly instead of privately. > It's fine to object to what I wrote, but NOT ACCEPTABLE to advocate censorship! No censorship has occurred. Your post has not been removed from the WG5 and PL22.3 archives. Your access to the WG5 and PL22.3 mailing lists has not been revoked. There are many forums where you are free to express yourself in whatever way you wish. This is not one of them. > Fortunately, the WG5 mailing list does not yet have a censor. No, it does not have a censor. But behavior on the WG5 mailing list is governed by the ISO code of conduct. -- Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash US Programming Language Standards (PL22) Chair ISO C++ Library Evolution Chair CppCon and C++Now Program Chair CUDA Core C++ Libraries (Thrust, CUB, libcu++) Lead @ NVIDIA --