From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Mon May 4 00:22:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id D667C357140; Mon, 4 May 2020 00:22:55 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-vs1-f45.google.com (mail-vs1-f45.google.com [209.85.217.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5873E35681F for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 00:22:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f45.google.com with SMTP id z1so9983343vsn.11 for ; Sun, 03 May 2020 15:22:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4zRAjMydfS5SxZMNuvpM4lY6H4/Na9rD9f56p7RyTSI=; b=Wur83tx5nfWv+W6QFjG56EPjJChbcjlW0Ju40NFD/wViJcdARHveojijtGrBicng8v +E+qsk5zpLhyeN3gWDCV7L6FvgqrDhdzqybGdeJ76mob/Vm7HIICJkG0+zenguh8bZlQ TX0n3irCO86p4fh3oMo5KAhN6JgqnGiTszgjMqlD6KNxc0nPOX5bRgOQ4v2q9nrQiTtb Y2ah+RH8lm9Hv2XiN/1gPnl1H4KRhHRW2352zMOoCtsy6gGtfd5QhKmyzgT0pxoJv53E IsFxn1MdGv1nr84la4Po0V0h5b2NycnGzQhZ4Cm01dPF1eFQ+wuyoyE7T48ASexv15G8 RHjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4zRAjMydfS5SxZMNuvpM4lY6H4/Na9rD9f56p7RyTSI=; b=tihkAUdYooW03KZb+x93rzqrGESB3hqgR6oOIHa3yKwRVnV1PKJsH5xiNqup6dUcpC FCcrFkR5zQSKpzjhQF3fLmMwRksnMiyeLxWCzDwdTpBbMsEnSpy9K9xXcKuMddTYwskB x21HaW/2IFAMDuELthyIFrTX8lvOGx0e1JtVC8iSplSbHOHdY8WQKKVMnol1bU9C08I4 Es60s6ZsV53TMy9ixHHnB1v7/THwSQwnsWpsRr89e+S8nA9/wrCXmIUtXWNp54Ja+ORH Yxm6pD4w4x7GNeM7FjRsXTV2IacTQbXfhZYw+uBRlV8lUtoJVMUFFDWAQi05iN41OIXA XXRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaOSQ0bGi8IyGFFsKVrIDyfGbjhwKj+z4+Qyy5lM6T3J1tavzYO jrmT55M68J4H3fvHBGDLthyv7pwvejN5CgPhoj8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJu5WEkCJhR0IdsGwgeObE8KwTUFysorz23JNtMJqucl7lrlyGuEfUHeGALn78kqEb4XVNZ++FlgyJfH3Dz5lI= X-Received: by 2002:a67:6c05:: with SMTP id h5mr10591906vsc.164.1588544573846; Sun, 03 May 2020 15:22:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200428004737.19A4F9DB145@www.open-std.org> <20200428074311.C5B783568BB@www.open-std.org> <20200502234441.6A8CF3587E3@www.open-std.org> In-Reply-To: <20200502234441.6A8CF3587E3@www.open-std.org> From: Vipul Parekh Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 18:22:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [J3] (SC22WG5.6212) October meeting - Go Virtual/Mixed-mode, or be discriminatory To: General J3 interest list Cc: WG5 List , Steve Lionel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000008b8df05a4c5db55" Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --00000000000008b8df05a4c5db55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:44 PM Steve Lionel via J3 < j3@mailman.j3-fortran.org> wrote: > On 5/2/2020 7:25 PM, Vipul Parekh via J3 wrote: > > It will be highly remiss of both ISO and INCITS to not allow > virtual participation in any governance and technical meetings during the > rest of 2020 and likely through 2021, or at least until a time the risk > assessments with COVID-19 outbreak have been lowered sufficiently and the > public heath emergency declarations by international organizations such as > W.H.O. and national bodies such as US C.D.C have been lifted. To not do so > will be highly discriminatory against those possible participants who, > given their own personal health considerations or of those in their care or > environs, are in a "high risk" category. > > ISO and INCITS already *allow *virtual participation, so this is not an > issue. > My impression really is there is indeed some issues somewhere, if not with ISO and INCITS then perhaps they are with WG5, J3 in that both recent email frenzy as well as prior email discussions on J3/WG5 mailing lists have "implied" ISO/INCITS *may not bar* virtual attendance but that there might be constraints when it comes to *participation*. There is a big difference here. To allow for virtual attendance means these 2 orgs not only clear up any procedural hurdles there may be when it comes to a participant attending remotely (who can submit papers, talk, vote, conduct presentations, etc.) but that the orgs also extend appropriate resources to make virtual participation a success. The resources may simply be suggestions and/or code-of-conduct guides and communication such as stressing to all groups the importance of inclusivity considerations on how to *properly* manage mixed-mode meetings e.g., the use of electronic views (shared screens, links, documents, images/buttons, etc.) instead of visual/verbal communications and gestures and other interpersonal interactions characteristic of face-to-face meetings to achieve progress on discussions. And resources may also cover providing software/hardware and perhaps some funding. Considering the dangers globally with life, limb, and livelihood during this COVID-19 pandemic, WG5 and J3 in conjunction with ISO and INCITS has to either "pull out all the stops" to enable virtual participation and try to make the remote attendee as involved and productive as in-person attendees. Or consider postponement of all the activities and go idle. The timeline for this may extend to all of 2020, perhaps 2021 and cut into 2022 even. > I have already started investigating what we would need to do this for the > October meeting, should it happen. (I have heard suggestions ISO might > extend the ban on in-person meetings further.) As has been discussed > recently, the time zone issue is a real killer for WG5, not so much for J3 > (except for Malcolm, who is a critical member of J3, and lives in Japan.) > If nothing else we will need to restructure the (largely J3-oriented) > schedule we follow that assumes everyone is present. > > I had a productive talk the other day with Bryce Lelbach, PL22 chair, on > how we can acquire the hardware we need to make this work. Both ISO and > INCITS already offer the software. > That is very good to read. It will be useful for everyone to keep in mind 2 aspects: 1) WG5 and J3 are hardly the first groups to face issues with time-zone differences and 2) to be flexible and adapt to the changing circumstances is what is incumbent upon everyone everywhere during this pandemic. There are any number of lessons to be learned from other teams who achieve progress and success in spite of a wide geographical distribution of team members. Toward this, I'm personally highly encouraged by Bryce Leibach's interest in and contributions to Fortran committees and I can already see his attendance and guidance at future Fortran meetings will be most valuable. Thank you Bryce and welcome to Fortran. Regards, Vipul Parekh --00000000000008b8df05a4c5db55 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:44 PM Steve = Lionel via J3 <j3@mailman.j= 3-fortran.org> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 5/2/2020 7:25 PM, Vipul Parekh via J3 wrote:
It will be highly remiss of both ISO and INCITS to not allow virtual=C2=A0participation in any governance and technical meetings during the rest of 2020 and likely through 2021, or at least until a time the risk assessments with COVID-19 outbreak have been lowered sufficiently and the public heath=C2=A0emergency declarations by international organizations such as W.H.O. and national bodies such as US C.D.C have been lifted.=C2=A0 To not do so will be highly discriminatory against those possible participants who, given their own personal health considerations or of those in their care or environs, are in a "high risk" category.

ISO and INCITS already allow virtual participation, so this is not an issue.

My impression really= is there is indeed some issues somewhere, if not with ISO and INCITS then = perhaps they are with WG5, J3 in that both recent email frenzy as well as p= rior email discussions on J3/WG5 mailing lists have "implied" ISO= /INCITS *may not bar* virtual attendance but that there might be constraint= s when it comes to *participation*.

There is a big= difference here.=C2=A0 To allow for virtual attendance means these 2 orgs = not only clear up any procedural hurdles there may be when it comes to a pa= rticipant attending remotely (who can submit papers, talk, vote, conduct pr= esentations, etc.) but that the orgs also extend appropriate resources to m= ake virtual participation a success.=C2=A0 The resources may simply be sugg= estions and/or code-of-conduct guides and communication such as stressing t= o all groups the importance of inclusivity considerations on how to *proper= ly* manage mixed-mode meetings e.g., the use of electronic views (shared sc= reens, links, documents, images/buttons, etc.) instead of visual/verbal com= munications and gestures and other interpersonal interactions characteristi= c of face-to-face meetings to achieve progress on discussions.=C2=A0 And re= sources may also cover providing software/hardware and perhaps some funding= .=C2=A0 Considering the dangers globally with life, limb, and livelihood du= ring this COVID-19 pandemic, WG5 and J3 in conjunction with ISO and INCITS = has to either "pull out all the stops" to enable virtual particip= ation and try to make the remote attendee as involved and productive as in-= person attendees.=C2=A0 Or consider postponement of all the activities and = go idle.=C2=A0 The timeline for this may extend to all of 2020, perhaps 202= 1 and cut into 2022 even.
=C2=A0

I have already started investigating what w= e would need to do this for the October meeting, should it happen. (I have heard suggestions ISO might extend the ban on in-person meetings further.) As has been discussed recently, the time zone issue is a real killer for WG5, not so much for J3 (except for Malcolm, who is a critical member of J3, and lives in Japan.) If nothing else we will need to restructure the (largely J3-oriented) schedule we follow that assumes everyone is present.

I had a productive talk the other day with Bryce Lelbach, PL22 chair, on how we can acquire the hardware we need to make this work. Both ISO and INCITS already offer the software.

That is very good to read.=C2=A0 It will be useful for everyone= to keep in mind 2 aspects: 1) WG5 and J3 are hardly the first groups to fa= ce issues with time-zone differences and 2) to be flexible and adapt to the= changing circumstances is what is incumbent upon everyone everywhere durin= g this pandemic.=C2=A0 There are any number of lessons to be learned from o= ther teams who achieve progress and success in spite of a wide geographical= distribution of team members.

Toward this, I&= #39;m personally highly encouraged by Bryce Leibach's interest in and c= ontributions to Fortran committees and I can already see his attendance and= guidance at future Fortran meetings will be most valuable.=C2=A0 Thank you= Bryce and welcome to Fortran.

Regards,
= Vipul Parekh
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