From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Wed Apr 29 21:11:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id EE13E3568A1; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:11:19 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org X-Greylist: delayed 419 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at www5.open-std.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:11:19 CEST Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB333566A9 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:11:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28ED15C0731; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap21 ([10.202.2.71]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:04:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=certik.us; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=C1ixv 0znR9Eym+kHVsydn9OKP9AmP1mKqGZALrNMDno=; b=WniL2zXFy3uXWO5f35gQK mjThDNhAQaW17D5TXxX3huhsP1ApT8uN2r36WM4t6PpnlncKyvEhHNfd5LCUJp8y kB3J6ysHpIw1wcIkGtV6L93Z2SyNocE+BJrl/fxm5+bhnqHniySPZOE6vDDhosXj SbexFInulDsKSp21ythRNcr058zI9kIjyHv3ONmz5+qcSqiRamQmC4QOSTjEgB0n dkAJ1gSItb0TF3DoQX63FAaqTdOtOwKN4Bm9sH9SAR3iUXHKpF6YGBRFA1zQcUAu fIt0+svHTBCA7CyOGKZFxr8sjmjXW3wQn8M6iXT1MbuHTiaFKtiFz43xdyNsZ6cy A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=C1ixv0znR9Eym+kHVsydn9OKP9AmP1mKqGZALrNMD no=; b=N9Us2yFyik8VKAPBy6IP5AvdzCIyxvRwdVvI9mn9Xqz1g9mwZ2KNKEvOT PYlKTaB3DENOja3DNBNZR+Rlse6leai2+cFt7mfnIrs3oUKCXq4agO3J4uDdwU/T xUuyRQAfGAnX5Jw60QsgQ4NUf51HL9FRMosw+XVMG1aG90mHw7oxan9csHqkt1B3 RLio+G13/HBGdrn2C7qi4tB1iQu0P8UayJ0DHu6qbrUG4sCH4HM6YN3Cj0SQHf94 ODqwwwHcuM4fdnFdfpvjvCiMGKDaEExOs3GPBLFcM5gCEWgYp5RQw0Rj8+rudY77 oVu0sYJ4e66TGBlEJ+/FSzRWG6Qng== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrieefgddufedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtgfesth hqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepqfhnughrvghjpgevvghrthovkhcuoehonhgurhgvjhes tggvrhhtihhkrdhusheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgedutdevgfdvkeefueeifffhue evjeehkeeihefhjeevtdevtedugffgffeggfffnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdr tghomhdpjhefqdhfohhrthhrrghnrdhorhhgpdhgihhtlhgrsgdrtghomhenucevlhhush htvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehonhgurhgvjhestggv rhhtihhkrdhush X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 89A6C66007F; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:04:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-351-g9981f4f-fmstable-20200421v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <40fd2880-bd8a-4552-b482-91c1e39af016@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20200428004737.19A4F9DB145@www.open-std.org> <20200428114456.5CCDA3568A1@www.open-std.org> <999548a1-9f82-418c-b8be-1fd87f94d3be@www.fastmail.com> <20200428172340.851A13568A1@www.open-std.org> <20200428195502.E072C3568BB@www.open-std.org> <5a392c04-ddab-46e6-8024-ae89b8658d29@www.fastmail.com> <20200428225409.F33B13587B3@www.open-std.org> <20200429083749.4E7369DB117@www.open-std.org> <20200429151053.9A3643568A1@www.open-std.org> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:03:54 -0600 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_=C4=8Cert=C3=ADk?= To: "J3 Mailinglist" Cc: "WG5 List" Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_[J3]_[EXTERNAL]_(SC22WG5.6189)_RE:_[ukfortran]_October_mee?= =?UTF-8?Q?ting_visa_invitation_letter?= Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Clune, Thomas L. (GSFC-6101) via J3 w= rote: > Bill >=20 > (Seems like strict adherence of policies might prevent such orgs from=20= > participating in WG5 at all given that the labs have representation on= =20 > it. But let=E2=80=99s leave that aside for an interesting discussion a= fter=20 > hours at the next meeting =E2=80=A6) >=20 > > Actually, I have used GitHub. And find it really jargon-laden in the= areas used for software development. But it is a widely used platform f= or distributing open source software. However, collaborative software de= velopment and discussions about wording in the standard are pretty diffe= rent animals. Arguably, GitHub is too complicated for what we need.=20 >=20 > Technically, GitHub is not just for software, but for collaborative=20= > projects involving documents managed under Git. Those documents are=20= > often software but need not be. Committee papers fit very nicely withi= n=20 > the GitHub+Git model. Yes. And in addition, we *already* used this model for the last meeting = for the 4 papers that I mentioned. For example here is a Pull Request (P= R): https://github.com/j3-fortran/fortran_proposals/pull/145 that collaboratively improves the document that later was submitted as: https://j3-fortran.org/doc/year/20/20-107.txt So this is not something hypothetical that would never work in practice.= It works and we have already used it for a few papers. >=20 > >=20 > > (One alternative, Google Docs, is even worse. Its registration proce= ss asks for personal information that is only requested for purposes of = later ad spamming. The company privacy and cyber security policies prett= y much ban the use of Google Docs. ) >=20 > Google Docs really only scratches the surface of the kinds of=20 > capabilities we are talking about with GitHub. The review process,=20 > traceability, commentary, branches, people with different levels of=20= > responsibility / authorization. >=20 > All of the hosting environments I listed in my original email have som= e=20 > sort of enterprise version that could be installed anywhere we deem=20= > appropriate. The issue is cost, which is usually proportional to the=20= > number of users. I think one of them may have a free enterprise versio= n=20 > for non-profit organizations. It would have fewer features, but likely= =20 > has the ones that we want/need. E.g., we don=E2=80=99t need sophistica= ted=20 > workflows nor continuous integration tests.=20 The free (open source) version of GitLab allows the above workflow and e= ven has continuous integration (CI) tests (that's minor, but it actually= might be helpful to check using a CI that the paper can actually be upl= oaded to j3-fortran.org --- for example it doesn't like accents in my na= me and other things, see https://github.com/j3-fortran/fortran_proposals= /pull/10 for all the changes I had to make). Here is a full comparison of self-hosted GitLab, we would do the Core (f= ree open source) version: https://about.gitlab.com/pricing/self-managed/feature-comparison/ Ondrej