From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom8=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Wed Jul 12 20:48:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom8 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom8@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 53E9E3587D7; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:48:31 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail-qt0-f182.google.com (mail-qt0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A3FF3569AE for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:48:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-qt0-f182.google.com with SMTP id i2so20114083qta.3 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:48:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stevelionel.com; s=google; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=pSyWcH7i5p0XqX6bucGYTDIScm4kUu6xi2jIj7fSM6A=; b=tDJHiilYGLHamHaK35Y7vi44+sdo/gxvNPvtGbhaRLvKj+8/tCPiBPdCS00N1xghTE vmogu38Hitb3r94XDdjMMarrtmPSfDpgOvEgGzvz17WuYwAvtB5IR9jtwiAks1ukfPW2 F21vJdlS/WDe2lwiB61e4QvC1PHxzaQem5qBQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=pSyWcH7i5p0XqX6bucGYTDIScm4kUu6xi2jIj7fSM6A=; b=Cyd84Dl83eq/GthJNbe/zwiIrHov80FRzeQZNnQ9oLX7WPU8SAKftGPrX0HwcJrLae KP75nItcURR0CljhPs7DhfJORqzjv7NbTUX1xpgSJHpvdZc5XOcgIhNuVsohg0TcUZZJ 2HtA0TZEB48fpI7BSLXQYR7Z0uV6S9Yrs2NsenRCmEHQduv0RiKX7Uv4ZtoP1hGMDdFw s+lH83e45pWhhLZoLRhJoU5vbNmR+uq/TKbJG9bJy8undF0wloGypdTc96EZL4DM+CGN DKFBzvj5U/thfAgKQUAB30ariuP1UVhrXwbnYph4SAUXO86kFPB8vdHn+vYWOkAMGJK4 FwMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110nGAt+6OE7wuAgT6p6Ru99Lv6w/oPQB14vniL7Nt2CThAc2ozB tWNF8k+qOw0g7Hk+1dcWbQ== X-Received: by 10.200.57.225 with SMTP id v88mr15684qte.50.1499885307801; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.137] (pool-71-168-105-188.cncdnh.fast11.myfairpoint.net. [71.168.105.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q89sm2454886qkl.31.2017.07.12.11.48.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: (j3.2006) (SC22WG5.5918) [ukfortran] Preview of possible feature survey To: WG5 List References: <20170702233407.599BA35828D@www.open-std.org> <20170712091922.F336E3587DA@www.open-std.org> <20170712151445.1B9143587DB@www.open-std.org> <20170712152428.74A5B3569AE@www.open-std.org> <20170712175716.810653571AF@www.open-std.org> From: Steve Lionel X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:48:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170712175716.810653571AF@www.open-std.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for your comments, Nick, but I don't agree. Many Fortran users are very opinionated about what they want, and I am sure we'll get no end of suggestions, more than we can use. I know you weren't there, but in Garching we discussed the process for deciding new features and generally agreed that we'd be limiting ourselves to two or maybe three "medium to big" features for the next revision. Truthfully, exceptions and generic programming have been requested MANY times from a broad spectrum of the community, and it seems probable that we'll need to at least think a lot about those. (I know there are past papers with proposals - I have not looked at these yet, but they would be a good starting point for discussions.) The point of asking for "use cases" is to see what people want to use feature X for - we may (and probably will) be able to think of "more Fortran-like" ways of accomplishing what is asked for. As I've written before, we're not bound by any of this, but I think it's a source of feedback we have not made use of before. What I will do, though, is look at the NB requests for likely items to add to the list. I don't want to have more than 10 total items on the list. Steve P.S. Those of you who get this from the J3 list may want to reply to WG5 instead, rather than copying both J3 and WG5. On 7/12/2017 1:57 PM, N.M. Maclaren wrote: > On Jul 12 2017, Steve Lionel wrote: >> Do we have such lists already? I didn't think so, unless you meant the ones >> for F2015. > I did. The point about including those would be to get a feel for what > the more general user community thinks about them. > >> I don't think it's helpful to make the list too large, >> especially if we're going to stick with ranked-choice voting (which I think >> gives us more information and also prompts the user to think about their >> priorities.) >> >> The NBs can and will make their lists anyway. The idea here is to see what >> users want that we may not have thought of. > Then that is definitely NOT how to do it! That will cause people to think > in terms of the list. If we want new ideas, we have to leave it as open as > possible. > > Giving a list of possible areas, in EXTREMELY general terms, and NOT asking > for a ranking, might be worthwhile - but even that will constrain people's > thoughts. > > Regards, > Nick. > > > _______________________________________________ > J3 mailing list > J3@mailman.j3-fortran.org > http://mailman.j3-fortran.org/mailman/listinfo/j3