From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom8=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Fri Jul 8 16:52:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom8 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom8@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 716BB35828D; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:52:39 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD1135723B for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:52:34 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1467989553; bh=6ZtlUS/z7mQf8we9bV1AGMMTkuYF0PdpkrIShaOhMUc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=ce3/qscof1dZ79+wygSdCj/FfwGqI2vY+J8RkeUaHKiX7dH7VRHvDKdu0FsrHgM2mJu9WsiT9NaNR3BPfmqt9DhH3+A3oBxeSVxC777ELZCpS6A1hXKKNxibFFn0WTseSaxPrDCWaz3cB3jbyfkfj3g+abdqnkBc+5rCL5lPfaHTb5hSVf5Da65Sz66tdhUHMF0QbT76hYIxkCgIHl0TZZwRQ+sucRvhNM8DBy25Bgy/ZczEZVQZMxq6Ms1gcCPziu7PFodGPpgjdAzvCmsd3PXLrrcVYcV/aSPIR1ybhI2Z6q2iTpTInjGaAlvNOrNFdhku5b7N5qoKJyCPCEmeYg== Received: from [98.138.101.132] by nm20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2016 14:52:33 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.124] by tm20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2016 14:52:33 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2016 14:52:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 861415.44183.bm@smtp203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: NNZTT3EVM1lgQhHKJ02m.0bjUkayZogC24UsqNSCj1HEl_c yeEL09vkQ4ERzdDxm1a0J62WYZXJZd8.Tj61tehhKB5C1Av6j3b692jrM8DL 2VeUx9L_7NW_W73XP2rLniUzUp6Zk2lZ1Vcjw1fo3tOPBf1GYdPRVlcu6oJB X4DqruqYyK3uDsvcZsdjHoD4DArjcby7SBjgpDfm0AhY.gAb9gpwhfoaRTzY PiaXQsK7h.t.M1nxFjFW8X4HwfLHi6I25vjqATvIQr_SFtPUXclG9Y1zfZEb wUVaSeTEKHgYG46Yf.ZEn4Qreeq.6C4Z5T.i3b4bHJfomGds4pc_V0P2jhTZ C9.k.3gzgnktaOIVkpfKlrsVCmzdBcxT5vN1Oa_Te7Muu9SYa3yF9c5vnjos Yg1xq3R_H27Wb9fQG29.3QW3SGi3xuKqRdOCs5WS.zmZvbWom6o1uYoZVdtn BZevlGATM85IE3eywjoxqbvrM9_Jk06MkE.LqzciJhgNWFmzDpc0KdYmNLlH mg0y9r6yPwW7sNYkJv67F8WmLsPpGDUlLPQnn5LQz4aTuZtxNGPVTt2D.MQ- - X-Yahoo-SMTP: x0SCrfmswBCvW0SeKOpOOY7IMgY- Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 07:52:18 -0700 From: Damian Rouson To: Anton Shterenlikht , fortran standards email list for J3 , van.snyder@jpl.nasa.gov Cc: WG5 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20160708135637.6023835874C@www.open-std.org> References: <20160708135637.6023835874C@www.open-std.org> Subject: Re: (j3.2006) (SC22WG5.5764) [ukfortran] RE: RE: Units of measure X-Mailer: Airmail (367) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="577fbe31_7708e006_62a9" Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk --577fbe31_7708e006_62a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline All, Without weighing in on the specifics of the units proposal and partly bec= ause the discussion feels lopsided, I=E2=80=99ll simply note that Mathcad= 's units-handling capability was the top reason I chose it over MATLAB wh= en I was doing consulting work earlier in my career (mostly accident inve= stigations) and when I was teaching mechanical engineering at a different= point in my career. =C2=A0Both Mathcad and MATLAB are platforms for inte= rpreted languages, but such packages have almost completely eliminated th= e teaching of compiled languages in most undergraduate engineering and sc= ience curricula so it=E2=80=99s worth having their capabilities on the ra= dar. =C2=A0 In my original discipline of fluid dynamics, units are rarely used in sci= entific research (most codes study dimensionless forms of the basic equat= ions), but they are indispensable in engineering practice. =C2=A0=46ortra= n serves both communities. =C2=A0I would guess that most computational fl= uid dynamicists in academia or government labs are writing scientific res= earch codes, while most in industry are writing engineering software (e.g= ., finite element software). =C2=A0 On a related note, my impression from both survey data and lots of anecdo= tal evidence suggests a disconnect between what compiler vendors are hear= ing about users=E2=80=99 interests and what users are saying when they=E2= =80=99re not talking to vendors. =C2=A0It is quite often the case that th= ere is demonstrably high interest in a feature that, for reasons I can=E2= =80=99t discern, the vendors are not hearing from their users. =C2=A0I=E2= =80=99ll make that the subject of a different email. Damian On July 8, 2016 at 6:56:42 AM, Anton Shterenlikht (mexas=40bris.ac.uk) wr= ote: On 08/07/2016, Van Snyder wrote: =20 > Nobody got fired. The =24300 millions of taxpayer money was not recover= ed =20 Van, I have some interest in your proposal, but =20 I think you should stop using this story as a motivation =20 for it, because it's having the opposite effect. =20 You posted enough negative information about the =20 management of this project, and of your organisation =20 more generally, for me to conclude that =20 this story is one of a management failure, =20 and little to do with programming. =20 Speaking as a mechanical engineer, it would be wrong, =20 perhaps immoral, to lobby for O-rings with a capacity to report gaps, =20 just to mitigate potential management failures, =20 similar to the one that led to the 1986 Challenger disaster =5B1=5D. =20 Anton =20 =5B1=5D http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v1ch6.htm =20 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =20 J3 mailing list =20 J3=40mailman.j3-fortran.org =20 http://mailman.j3-fortran.org/mailman/listinfo/j3 =20 --577fbe31_7708e006_62a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline