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spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <5E211EEB0313764EA6764A6E87D7F664@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jul 2016 14:46:20.1669 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: e7b8488a-c0cd-4614-aae1-996bfabec247 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN4PR11MB0977 X-OriginatorOrg: cray.com Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk On Jul 3, 2016, at 1:16 PM, Van Snyder wrote: > On Sun, 2016-07-03 at 11:30 -0400, Tom Clune wrote: >> a shorter cycle would provide the greatest opportunity to ensure that >> the priority list is optimized across the Fortran community and >> implemented in time to make corrections in the subsequent standard. >=20 > I was expecting a shorter cycle after 2008, but we spent several years > on WG23 nonsense. We delayed gathering new features for three years, > and then did it in a helter-skelter manner that was nothing like the > organized way we did it in 2004. Can we not do that again? >=20 I don=92t think blaming WG23 is fair. The committee as a whole did not spe= nd that much time on WG23 activity, it did not create an imposition on vend= ors, and it seemed like the right thing to do as being responsible members= of the programming languages community.=20 The =93delay in gathering new features=94 , by which I assume you mean =93o= ther than the two TS projects=94, fits in with the actual topic of Tom=92s = post on =93slowing the pace=94. Which, I can verify, the management of at = least one vendor vigorously agrees with.=20 We need to keep in mind the point of a new revision of the language. It is= to evolve Fortran to keep it relevant in the face of external changes. Par= ticularly things like new hardware environments (parallel processing being = a clear example), or better programming methodologies (block structure, mo= dular programming design with name-space protection, =85). We also should= keep an eye on the evolution of application areas where scientific computi= ng is important (traditionally it was physics, and fields that are essentia= lly applied physics such as chemistry, meteorology, materials science, stru= ctural engineering, etc., but maybe in the future more biology or cryptogr= aphy, for example).=20 The point of a new revision is not to just add more features for the sake o= f adding more features. There are scores of features that have been propos= ed in the past and rejected. Unless they meaningfully address something th= at has since changed in the computing landscape, the argument for rejecting= them will not have changed. we should resolve to not reconsider such feat= ures yet again. That would save time for considering things that are releva= nt to the goal above, and an important component of doing things in an =93o= rganized way=94. Dan has hinted that new features for the next revision s= hould have a more developed justification than the =93this is a cool idea= =94 that we=92ve seen in the past. I agree this is the better approach.=20 Cheers, Bill >=20 > _______________________________________________ > J3 mailing list > J3@mailman.j3-fortran.org > http://mailman.j3-fortran.org/mailman/listinfo/j3 Bill Long = longb@cray.com Fortran Technical Support & voice: 651-6= 05-9024 Bioinformatics Software Development fax: 651-605-9142 Cray Inc./ Cray Plaza, Suite 210/ 380 Jackson St./ St. Paul, MN 55101