From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom8=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Fri Sep 30 17:46:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom8 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom8@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id C88723568F3; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:46:34 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.tiscali.co.uk [212.74.100.53]) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C6D3568E1 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:46:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Trace: 677245602/mk-filter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$b2c-THROTTLED/TalkTalk_Customer/2.101.19.94/None/John.Reid@stfc.ac.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 2.101.19.94 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: John.Reid@stfc.ac.uk X-SMTP-AUTH: X-Originating-Country: XX/UNKNOWN X-MUA: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0) Gecko/20110923 Firefox/7.0 SeaMonkey/2.4 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApMBAO/jhU4CZRNe/2dsb2JhbAAMNasKAQEBAwE4GyEFBQsLDgoJJQ8CRgYNAQcCh3e2W4cgBJNchROMKw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,468,1312153200"; d="scan'208";a="677245602" Received: from host-2-101-19-94.as13285.net (HELO [127.0.0.1]) ([2.101.19.94]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 30 Sep 2011 16:46:26 +0100 Message-ID: <4E85E44C.50602@stfc.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:46:20 +0100 From: John Reid User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0) Gecko/20110923 Firefox/7.0 SeaMonkey/2.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Muxworthy CC: sc22wg5@open-std.org Subject: Re: [ukfortran] (SC22WG5.4544) Comments on the technical content of the coarray TS References: <20110928104528.40F3C3568E7@www.open-std.org> <20110930113900.C09F63568CA@www.open-std.org> In-Reply-To: <20110930113900.C09F63568CA@www.open-std.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk David Muxworthy wrote: > On 28 Sep 2011, at 11:37, John Reid wrote: > >> Would anyone else like to comment? I will be talking about this at the >> BCS Fortran Group AGM tomorrow and hope to solicit some comments to >> add. > > > and on 28 Sep 2011, at 12:10, N.M. Maclaren wrote: > >> I have rechecked the WG5 Garching minutes and, while we did not >> formally agree to Reinhold's point (2), I recall there being a >> consensus that it was a necessary step within J3. I think you mean point 2(a). The main thrust (2) is a request for a 30% increase in complexity, which is contrary to WG5's agreed aim of avoiding such an increase. > As author of the minutes and resolutions, I have to admit that they > are pretty minimal. However my recollection of the discussion at the > WG5 meeting was that N1858 was to be shredded, annihilated, trashed, > 100% forgotten about and that we would start again from scratch by > first asking anew for user requirements, then producing an Objectives > and Rationale document and only thirdly specifying syntax and > semantics. I was surprised then at the BCS Fortran Group AGM when the > discussion seemed to imply that the coarray TS would essentially be > N1858 with variations. > > Perhaps others at the meeting could confirm or contradict my > impression. David, you were in the room. Why did you not speak up? I should have emphasized that J3 has been asked to produce an Objectives and Rationale document. But we are still at the stage of seeking user requirements. I have not seen the roughest first draft of an Objectives and Rationale document. I only had half an hour and I was trying to get some views on requirements. I explained the history, which is that four features were removed in 2008 with an informal promise that they would be put into a TR. These must be candidates. I was not positive about keeping any of them as they now are. I mentioned the new set of collectives from Bill, which seem to have consensus. I mentioned doubts over teams. Whether or not teams are included will be a big issue. Is there a requirement for parallel I/O? Is there a requirement for notify/query? I was trying to get opinions on these two. I asked if there is anything else for which people saw a need. Cheers, John.