From owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Wed Jun 24 04:03:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom7 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom7@www2.open-std.org Received: by www2.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 455A7C178E7; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:03:00 +0200 (CET DST) X-Original-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from mail1.cray.com (mail1.cray.com [136.162.0.111]) by www2.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39862C178E5 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:02:34 +0200 (CET DST) Received: from beaver.us.cray.com (beaver.us.cray.com [172.30.74.51]) by mail1.cray.com (8.13.6/8.13.3/gw-5323) with ESMTP id n5O22Vdx022777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:02:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CFEXFE01.us.cray.com (CFEXFE01.americas.cray.com [172.30.74.93]) by beaver.us.cray.com (8.13.8/8.13.3/hub-5273) with ESMTP id n5O22U5X023373; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:02:30 -0500 Received: from bill-longs-macbook-pro.local ([192.168.239.3]) by CFEXFE01.us.cray.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:02:29 -0500 Message-ID: <4A4189BC.4020500@cray.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:04:44 -0500 From: Bill Long Reply-To: longb@cray.com Organization: Cray Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fortran standards email list for J3 Cc: sc22wg5 Subject: Re: (j3.2006) (SC22WG5.4022) [ukfortran] LOCK/UNLOCK question References: <4A38A3BB.9090208@nag-j.co.jp><4A38B917.8080202@llnl.gov> <4A391682.8060208@cray.com> <061720091627.18164.4A39196C000C05A4000046F422230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF02019C050C079D0B020A08D2050C070B@att.net> <4A3930E3.8070505@cray.com> <061720091851.25112.4A393B4100015BA20000621822228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF02019C050C079D0B020A08D2050C070B@att.net> <4A397E50.9010406@nag-j.co.jp> <4A3F9897.8010103@llnl.gov> <4A3FA25D.1050507@cray.com> <4A3FF921.9070703@llnl.gov> <20090622221248.1FEF4C178E5@www2.open-std.org> <20090623084602.88A3EC178E5@www2.open-std.org> In-Reply-To: <20090623084602.88A3EC178E5@www2.open-std.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2009 02:02:29.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[D44F8C20:01C9F46F] X-Cray-VirusStatus: clean Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk N.M. Maclaren wrote: > > In my experience, the unstructured nature of aliasing control is a more > important factor, but I agree that getting unstructured parallelism controls > right is error-prone in the hands of experts and completely hopeless in the > hands of non-experts. I dislike this sort of imperious condescension. While it might be the case that some hapless beginners will get things wrong, there are a lot of very good programmers out there who directly benefit from access to powerful features. They should not have their hands tied. Rather, we should cater to their needs. .... > > I agree that it would be better to separate atomics, SYNC MEMORY and locks > out into a separate module, for 'library implementors' only, and keep the > basic features at a higher and more robust level. I also don't entirely agree with the philosophy that all sophisticated coding should be confined in libraries where it is hidden from all but a few self-appointed experts. It's quite possible that someone else would come up with a new approach that is better - as long as (s)he has access to the tools. Cheers, Bill -- Bill Long longb@cray.com Fortran Technical Support & voice: 651-605-9024 Bioinformatics Software Development fax: 651-605-9142 Cray Inc., 1340 Mendota Heights Rd., Mendota Heights, MN, 55120