From owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Mon Dec 8 03:46:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom7 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom7@www2.open-std.org Received: by www2.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 3EAACC4596D; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 03:46:50 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by www2.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545A0C4596C for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 03:46:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mB82kBdJ030711 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:46:11 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (d01av05.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.195]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id mB82klrP196298 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:46:47 -0500 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id mB82klKx020989 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:46:47 -0500 Received: from d25ml04.torolab.ibm.com (d25ml04.torolab.ibm.com [9.26.6.105]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id mB82kk74020982; Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:46:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20081127193527.EF00DC178D9@www2.open-std.org> References: <20081127193527.EF00DC178D9@www2.open-std.org> To: John.Reid@stfc.ac.uk, WG5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (j3.2006) (SC22WG5.3688) Ballot on the technical content of the TR X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.1 HF105 April 10, 2008 Message-ID: From: Jim Xia Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:46:44 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D25ML04/25/M/IBM(Release 7.0.3FP1|February 24, 2008) at 12/07/2008 21:46:46, Serialize complete at 12/07/2008 21:46:46 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 000F440B85257519_=" Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 000F440B85257519_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Vote from Jim Xia on "Further Interoperability of Fortran with C" TR No ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Comments on No vote 1.) OPTIONAL argument The current design does not support OPTIONAL argument with VALUE attribute. This is a fundamental technical flaw in the design. The Fortran 2003 standard allows VALUE to be specified with OPTIONAL argument, while in the TR this combination becomes illegal. This obviously is an adverse change compared to F03. It should also be noted that one solution that supports this particular combination was proposed, but it was rejected due to the implementation convenience of a few vendors. 2.) Fortran descriptors Although Fortran descriptors are used when passing assumed-shape arrays, pointer arrays and allocatable arrays by many vendors, they are however not universally used by all vendors. Based on a survey earlier this year (by Craig Rasmussen at J3 m183), some vendors haven't adopted descriptors for assumed shape arrays, pointer arrays or allocatable arrays. The requirement in the C-interop TR may pose implementation difficulties for those vendors. Furthermore allowing updates on Fortran descriptors from C programs will likely cause safety issues and also be problematic in consistency check by some vendors. This becomes a sure way to introduce bugs difficult to diagnose. 3.) assumed-type and assumed-rank These two features were not in the original scope of TR 29113. They were proposed (08-271r1) to be added to this TR in an attempt to respond to the requirement from MPI community for something similar to IGNORE_TKR directives already implemented by a number of vendors. These features are of more urgent and important nature than the OPTIONAL or the descriptor features in TR 29113. Therefore it is more desirable to devote effort and study to these features in a separate TR. Cheers, Jim Xia RL Fortran Compiler Test IBM Toronto Lab at 8200 Warden Ave, Markham, On, L6G 1C7 Phone (905) 413-3444 Tie-line 313-3444 email: jimxia@ca.ibm.com D2/YF7/8200 /MKM From: John Reid To: WG5 Date: 11/27/2008 02:35 PM Subject: (j3.2006) (SC22WG5.3688) Ballot on the technical content of the TR ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG5 N1763 WG5 letter ballot 5 on technical content of N1761 John Reid, 26 November 2008 This is the letter ballot that WG5 agreed to hold in view of there being insufficient time in Tokyo to discuss the technical content of the TR on "Further Interoperability of Fortran with C". Please answer the following question "Do you approve of the technical content of N1761?" in one or more of these ways (it is acceptable to choose both 2 and 3). 1) Yes. 2) Yes, with comments. 3) Yes, except with OPTIONAL dummy arguments in interoperable interfaces removed, with comments. 4) No, with comments (comments required). 5) Abstain. Please send your vote to sc22wg5@open-std.org to arrive by 9 a.m. (UK time) on January 5th 2009 (my first working day of the New Year). Note that the contents of N1763 are identical with those of 08-305 except that line 122 of 08-305 is changed from "the argument of the C_LOC intrinsic function in the ISO_C_BINDING" to "the argument of the C_LOC function in the ISO_C_BINDING intrinsic" [attachment "N1761.txt" deleted by Jim Xia/Toronto/IBM] _______________________________________________ J3 mailing list J3@j3-fortran.org http://j3-fortran.org/mailman/listinfo/j3 --=_alternative 000F440B85257519_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Vote from Jim Xia on "Further Interoperability of Fortran with C" TR


No
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments on No vote

1.) OPTIONAL argument
The current design does not support OPTIONAL argument with VALUE attribute. This
is a fundamental technical flaw in the design.  The Fortran 2003 standard allows
VALUE to be specified with OPTIONAL argument, while in the TR this combination
becomes illegal.  This obviously is an adverse change compared to F03.
It should also be noted that one solution that supports this particular combination
was proposed, but it was rejected due to the implementation convenience of a few
vendors.


2.) Fortran descriptors
Although Fortran descriptors are used when passing assumed-shape arrays, pointer
arrays and allocatable arrays by many vendors, they are however not universally used
by all vendors.  Based on a survey earlier this year (by Craig Rasmussen at J3 m183),
some vendors haven't adopted descriptors for assumed shape arrays, pointer arrays
or allocatable arrays.  The requirement in the C-interop TR may pose implementation
difficulties for those vendors.  Furthermore allowing updates on Fortran descriptors from
C programs will likely cause safety issues and also be problematic in consistency
check by some vendors.  This becomes a sure way to introduce bugs difficult to diagnose.


3.) assumed-type and assumed-rank
These two features were not in the original scope of TR 29113.  They were proposed
(08-271r1) to be added to this TR in an attempt to respond to the requirement from
MPI community for something similar to IGNORE_TKR directives already implemented by
a number of vendors.  These features are of more urgent and important nature than the
OPTIONAL or the descriptor features in TR 29113.  Therefore it is more desirable to
devote effort and study to these features in a separate TR.


Cheers,

Jim Xia

RL Fortran Compiler Test
IBM Toronto Lab at 8200 Warden Ave, Markham, On, L6G 1C7
Phone (905) 413-3444  Tie-line 313-3444
email: jimxia@ca.ibm.com
D2/YF7/8200 /MKM


From: John Reid <John.Reid@stfc.ac.uk>
To: WG5 <sc22wg5@open-std.org>
Date: 11/27/2008 02:35 PM
Subject: (j3.2006) (SC22WG5.3688) Ballot on the technical content of the TR




                                         ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG5 N1763

          WG5 letter ballot 5 on technical content of N1761

                     John Reid, 26 November 2008

This is the letter ballot that WG5 agreed to hold in view of there being
insufficient time in Tokyo to discuss the technical content of the TR on
"Further Interoperability of Fortran with C".

Please answer the following question "Do you approve of the technical
content of N1761?" in one or more of these ways (it is acceptable to choose
both 2 and 3).

1) Yes.
2) Yes, with comments.
3) Yes, except with OPTIONAL dummy arguments in interoperable interfaces
   removed, with comments.
4) No, with comments (comments required).
5) Abstain.

Please send your vote to sc22wg5@open-std.org to arrive by 9 a.m. (UK time)
on January 5th 2009 (my first working day of the New Year).

Note that the contents of N1763 are identical with those of 08-305 except
that line 122 of 08-305 is changed from

    "the argument of the C_LOC intrinsic function in the ISO_C_BINDING"
to
    "the argument of the C_LOC function in the ISO_C_BINDING intrinsic"
[attachment "N1761.txt" deleted by Jim Xia/Toronto/IBM] _______________________________________________
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